Ramp Check= Aviation killer

[Wargames]

The more I read, the more flaws I get.......please give me a couple of days to sort out wording and laws...Dont all run out and buy Halon extinguishers..(I am in Part 135, so now am having to do some seeeeeerious reading).

All I can say is as far as extinguishers and 1st Aid kits go, use common sense, and carry one...just think of your children flying in that a/c...you would want the best for them.

At least we are are going to sort this out properly what is needed and what is not.

Much thanks for your patience.

Goffel.

Arnulf

Julle is soos n klomp ou vrouens.Hoe gaan jy voel as jou trike op die grond aan die brand slaan en jy het nie n brandblusser nie EN DIT STEEK NOG N KLOMP AERIES/GOED AAN DIE BRAND?
"COMMON SENSE"

Becareful German. Hier is 'n klomp ou vrouens op die site. Eks een van hulle.

I would like to see some stats as well. Further more, if you premix, the chances of burning is even less. Please remember, You cannot have the same list for a boeing, and a trike. Thats madness.

I say again. I am safe, but not because I carry them. I carry the papers to be legal. And no, I don't have a fire extinguisher, because I don't have panier bags, and thus cannot carry it safely. Go and read your regs.

[German]

Sorry- didnt know fuel burns only when not mixed and nothing else can burn

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Everything burns, given sufficient heat... There are too many permutations to cover all. Just manage the risks. (Most guys I know tend to "fire" it up outside away from the hangar.)

Personally
If plane start to burn in air I will try to land before I try extinguish the flames in most cases.... (Trike, blik or plastic) I have seen what happens to "flight" (it stops being flight and becomes early stages of uncontrolled CRASH) when a guy gets even slightly "distracted" never mind trying to put out flames...

Seen some cases where the guy has tried to use the 1.5kg and it had little effect. My 2c get down and get out FAST.

If on the ground RUN AWAY and then fone insurance broker....

[Oupa-G]

George I agree on the ground ASAP rule #1 on the way down sideslip one way and then the other and see what works best , shut the fuel in the Bosvark drain the header tank and use the fire extinguisher but keep on aviating . On a trike the burning stuff is behind you and you can't reach. I have never to my knowledge have heard of an in flight trike fire it would be interesting to test the forum, maybe it is not such a real problem as what the ramp check wants it to be.


Cheers Oupa-G

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Agreed. Each aerie will have POH directive of how to deal with fire. In the BB, the engine runs for almost 3 mins with fuel taps closed . The RV will die in less than min.

I have never had fire, but I assume reactions would be to kill everything. Master, mags, fuel etc.

[Boet]

It seems like the trike-guys will HAVE to fit pannier bags so they can take fire ext with?? Not a bad idea to have a fire bottle on board. I do not like flying without one. Dit help dalk nie veel nie, dan troos dit darem!! As My errie vlamvat sal dit die verassers baie geld spaar.......

[German]

It seems like the trike-guys will HAVE to fit pannier bags so they can take fire ext with?? Not a bad idea to have a fire bottle on board. I do not like flying without one. Dit help dalk nie veel nie, dan troos dit darem!! As My errie vlamvat sal dit die verassers baie geld spaar.......

En dan is jou as sommer klaar gestrooi

[Mogas]

Agreed. Each aerie will have POH directive of how to deal with fire. In the BB, the engine runs for almost 3 mins with fuel taps closed . The RV will die in less than min.

I have it on good authority that the 2.2 Jab Exp will do TWO circuits on the header tank with both tank taps closed!

[Karamba]

Wargames wrote "Becareful German. Hier is 'n klomp ou vrouens op die site. Eks een van hulle.

I would like to see some stats as well. Further more, if you premix, the chances of burning is even less. Please remember, You cannot have the same list for a boeing, and a trike. Thats madness.

I say again. I am safe, but not because I carry them. I carry the papers to be legal. And no, I don't have a fire extinguisher, because I don't have panier bags, and thus cannot carry it safely. Go and read your regs."

Becareful you dont become part of the stats

[Wargames]

Who said anything about being a stat??!!

Stop twisting words to make everyone paranoid.

[German]

You wrote: "I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME STATS AS WELL"

[Wargames]

You wrote: "I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME STATS AS WELL"

Hi German,

Becareful you dont become part of the stats

I'm with you on wanting to see the stats. the problem on the stats, is that it is difficult to assign a incident or accident to a category like "insufficient training" or "Pilot Error" or "Insufficient maintenance'. If that was done, it would have been easier to clean sa aviation from unnecessary accidents.

[Johannvanniekerk]

The only time that you have to much fuel onboard is when you're on fire!

[Arnulf]

The more I read, the more flaws I get.......please give me a couple of days to sort out wording and laws...Dont all run out and buy Halon extinguishers..(I am in Part 135, so now am having to do some seeeeeerious reading).

All I can say is as far as extinguishers and 1st Aid kits go, use common sense, and carry one...just think of your children flying in that a/c...you would want the best for them.

At least we are are going to sort this out properly what is needed and what is not.

Much thanks for your patience.

Goffel.

Arnulf

Julle is soos n klomp ou vrouens.Hoe gaan jy voel as jou trike op die grond aan die brand slaan en jy het nie n brandblusser nie EN DIT STEEK NOG N KLOMP AERIES/GOED AAN DIE BRAND?
"COMMON SENSE"

German, Bist Du wirklich Deutsch?

I think classifying us as a "klomp ou vrouens" is a bit inappropriate. I do not know how much knowledge and training you had regarding fire fighting and the use of different types of fire extinguishers. CAA specifies a halon extingisher to carried. The reason for specifying a halon fire extinguisher is, that it is the most appropriate type of fire extingisher to fight a fire in a confined space, with limited toxity to the operator. A small handheld halon fire extinguisher is rather unsuitable for use if your trike catches fire during start. If you are worried about that risk, you need a ground crew, with a suitable fire extinguisher.
Strange how we worry about stuff that are quite unlikely to happen, but observe and take part in operations that can be classified as gross negligence. Our real fire hazzard is the way we handle fuel. Aircraft get refuelled without any earth cables, very often inside hangars. To crown it all, very often the person refuelling the aircraft is having a smoke.
Do you really think a little tiny 1.5 kg halon extinguisher will help, if the can of fuel you are holding sets alight due to a static discharge? If CAA is really worried about fire hazzards and safety, they would send their clever inspectors around and try educate the flying fraternity about fire hazzards, and how to limit and manage the risks. But the preferred approach is the spietkop approach. Enforce the fire extinguisher rule, regardless how daft it is, and ignore the real problem areas. And then we have the real "klomp ou vrouens" who just say yes, comply with the rules, blissfully unaware where the real risks and threats are, and without the smallest effort in trying to manage these risks and threats.
Having a 1 kg halon extinguisher in a trike is daft, and does in no way contribute to safety.
Having a few 12 kg powder and CO2 extinguishers close by when refuelling and startin aeroplanes is very clever, and contributes to safety.

Regards,
Ou vrou.

[Goffel]

Actualyy there is a law regarding the amount of fire extinguishers that you have to have in and around the hangers......the distance between each hanger built , and so on........yes, the chances of a fire on board are pretty remote, but then again so was the on-board avionics failure on Air France that caused the loss of many lives..........the chances of falling off a bicycle are also remote, so why wear a crash helmet.

At the end of the day, safety is the most important thing in our discussion here.....regardless of what the laws say, you guys pay a heck of a lot of money for your machines, so dont you think that buying a fire exting and having a first aid kit on board is a fraction of the price that you paid out for your machines and should by some ungoodly piece of bad luck, you do happen to need it, you do have it on board.

A ramp inspection of one's craft should not cause undue stress...in fact it should be a breeze... a lot of the things needed, (not needed), are pure common sense.

Educating people on the in's and out's of safety / documentation thru a talk at one's microlight field / club is not a problem and to be honest, I would welcome any club etc to ask me to come and give such talk.....at the end of the day, we all benefit...


I am busy with the books at the moment and should be able to give all answers by Wednesday/Thursday.

I have found one discrepency......it says that one should carry a "Sports illustrated blonde" on board every flight.......I am not certain about the blond bit....I am sure a brunnette will suffice...

Goffel. 0824434568.