You and your AP.

[Boet]

We came back from the AP seminar, now carrying even more responsibility. As the years went by, the aeroplanes got bigger, better equipped, a LOT more sophisticated and a lot faster. Still called microlights. More liability issues results. Me and a fellow AP recently paid an airplane builder a visit. It was soon evident that this builder was not doing things right. He was very "clever" and knew better than both of us, and constantly questioned our better judgement. Between the 2 of us, we have more than 60 years of aeroplane experience behind us. Now what do we do about fellows like this? His tinkering, and constant changing and adding on made a nice aeroplane a DANGEROUS aeroplane. Next time I visit someone like this person, and he does not like or follow my advice, I will waste NO more breath. His aeroplane will remain HIS problem. If he never gets the darn thing flying I could not care. One less thing for me to worry about. When your friendly and helpfull AP "suggests" nicely that: "It would be better to do this and that in THIS way", he actually means: "Do as I say, lest we will pick up problems later." Please help us to help you. Please make sure that you are a member of Aero Club, and that you have your VALID membership card available, when you want an AP to do an inspection. We are not allowed to inspect non SAAC member`s aeroplanes any more. If we do, and something bad happens, the AP will have to face the music without SAAC support. Please be carefull out ther, and fly safe.

[kloot piloot]

Boet, I agree, you do not argue with 60 years experience. I disagree with:

Please make sure that you are a member of Aero Club, and that you have your VALID membership card available, when you want an AP to do an inspection.

But Boet, please answer me:

1.I have a trike with a current Authority to Fly (ATF) from CAA. The ATF woud not have been given to me by without the ainspection of an AP.
2.I have a current MPL with a CAA stamp on it.
3.I have an airframe logbook indicating that an AP overhauled my engine as required (then) by CAA.

All the above culminated in a seized engine shortly after an overhaul by an AP (refer my posting under accidents and incidents of this forum).

When your friendly and helpfull AP "suggests" nicely that: "It would be better to do this and that in THIS way", he actually means: "Do as I say, lest we will pick up problems later."

I did as was "suggested", the rest of the history was written in a backyard Rotax garage, and I did indeed "pick(ed) up the problems later". The AP was/is a "certified Rotax" overhauler, although not mentioned on the Rotax web-site.

So my question is, where exactly does Aero Club membership fit into the above when it gets to my recourse of the AP law ? If the Aero Club is willing to handle this on my behalve, then you will recieve my future 10 years of membership fees tommorrow !

p.s. I was a committee member of the Executive of the Aero Club. Has it changed enough to protect me (pilot on the ground), rather than the role players ?

[RV4ker (RIP)]

I think there is a difference between an AP inspecting your work and a mechanic who works on the plane and is also an AP. Boet's post is (I think) aimed more at the AP who is looking over your shoulder as opposed to one who is also the repairman swinging the spanners. I would say in your case you have recourse against the guy who did the work, that being the AP in his capacity as Rotax repair man. If AP was simply signing out your work, then you would still have recourse against the bloke who did the work, which in that case would be YOU...

I think RAASA/CAA/Aero Club are trying to get a AP and repairman AP system going? On the NTCA side of things the more complex an aerie becomes the fewer guys (AP's) are comfortable or suitably qualified (as far as CAA are concerned) to sign the aeries out. I am battling to find AP who is able to do 100hr inspection, effect repairs and sign out the RV for EG..... CAA keep sending me to RC in CT, but that is not practical.....

[Duck Rogers]

At the seminar we were told that there is apparently an Insurance policy in place that MAY cover the AP in case of a claim against him if things went "bad". I say "MAY" because the AP will only be covered if he belongs to Aeroclub AND the owner of the plane is ALSO a member of Aeroclub. I don't think it specifies that the owner of the plane has to be a member of Misasa, just a member of Aeroclub, so I guess through any of the affiliated bodies such as Misasa, SAFPA, SAMAA etc, will suffice.
I'm not sure if it will cover an engine seizure because it may be difficult to prove that the AP caused the seizure. Not sure if it will cover it even if it can be proved. I was under the impression that it will be of benefit if the Pilot's estate instituted a claim (read here what you like)
Bottom line is, the AP and the Owner have to be members of Aeroclub to benefit from the Policy.

The above is just a rough outline of what I understood. Maybe someone else can expand on this.

Looks like it's gonna be difficult to find an AP to check your plane out in future.............

[Boet]

Thanks Duck. You answered the question. The reason for all this is: LIABILITY. An ugly word in any language. It will still be relatively easy to find an AP to help you, provided you are: 1. A signed up member of the aero Club
2. You are willing to give your AP your full co-operation.

Then NO PROBLEMO.

Now, Aero Club. The guys from SAAC fight your battles with CAA for you. The least you can do is to support these guys. If EVERYBODY would just start to co-operate fully, we will have far less problems.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

What is SAAC?

[Frequent Flyer]

SA Aeroclub

[John Boucher]

Hey George... you are a member (Air Race requirement - Aeroclub & SAPFA)

[KFA]

If the owner of an aircraft is not a member of the aeroclub the AP runs a huge liability risk, you will struggle to find an AP to sign of an annual for a non member. I was told by CAA that they can not force anybody to be a member of the aeroclub, so for a non member to get an MPI or Annual inspection your only other option is to take your plane to any AMO to do the annual inspection. You only have those two choices, AP or AMO. Don't shoot the messanger I personally I think being a member of the Aeroclub is only benificial.

[Kalahari]

I currently do not have an aircraft anymore, only occasionally bum a ride with a fellow microlighter or use one of their trikes, what advantage does it hold for me to renew my Misasa and Aeroclub membership, I do not have any objections to renew but I am not keen to spend the money if I will not benefit? Can someone please give me some perspective on this?

[Old, Fat and Hairy]

I'm using an AME rather than an AP for my build. Nothing like having him hanging over my shoulder making my life difficult but I'm getting the best advice possible and use of some great tools.

[Stephan van Tonder]

Misasa and aeroclub represent your area of flying's interest on carcom etc. When there are regulation about to be introduced that affects your freedom to fly and hop in with a mate and go for a nice little flight they fight it for you. There are many and just a couple in the last couple of years is for instance the 300 hour rotax engine overhasul and the whole story where transponders was going to become compulsory. The 'benefit' isn't just the fact that you can buy third party insurance and you don't even have to do that but the major benefit is that you are still allowed to get into an aircraft and have the freedom of flight.
If we stop supporting those associations you might find yourself regulated out of flying. Don't you think that is benefit enough? Guys it's R425 a year - R35 a month - that is the cost of 1 hamburger and a coke per month. Why is that hard to swallow for some people?.

[Kalahari]

Thanks Stephan

As I said, I have no objection to renew my membership and have been a memeber ever since I started flyin way back in 97, just wondered what it hold for me to renew and I will as am not gonna quit flying.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Never heard it being referred to as SAAC Yip am member of 5 sections as well as SAAC

[Stephan van Tonder]

Yeah it's actually called AECSA - aero club south africa.
http://www.aeroclub.org.za/