Radio calls - questions ?

[Low Level]

Radio calls is pretty much a serious issue for me. I like to know where traffic is and what there intentions are, and also like others to know of my intentions. I actually got whipped while training, cause I was too involved with the radio, especially if I cannot hear the other party. Got told many times, aviate, navigate and then communicate.

What I was told, your radio calls during your trip would include your take off point and your destination, for when something goes wrong, and your calls were overheard by someone, they would have an idea where you are.

I include this picture just for some clarity.

Route1.jpg (69.37 KiB) Viewed 2610 times

Now, say one is flying from Rhino park to Kokoriba, via Hartebeespoortdam. We are mixing with GA on route, and not many of them know where Rhino is, and almost no one knows where Kokoriba is. We are using special rules east and west frequencies, which covers a very large area, therefore we might as well be flying south of Jo'burg according to ignorant others in the air.

Now questions:

Do I say CFW on route from Kitty hawk, our neighbours by 4 miles but well known in GA, to Brits A/F ? Now the route is known to many, but we might be expected somewhere where we wont be.

or

do I use Rhino and Kokoriba, stating current positions, so nobody knows the route, but at least knows where my last reporting point is.

and do we use the via Hartebeespoortdam option in the call, which becomes a very lengthy call on a busy frequency, but makes a huge difference route wise ?

If we route further to a private strip on a farm, say 30 miles north of Brits A/F, do we call to Brits a/f along the route, and from there on just call routing north from Brits a/f ?

Lastly, if I just fly around. don't know where I'm going to end or what my next turn is going to be, depends on what I see, how do I state my intentions, especially if there is not a major GA landmark nearby ?

[Morph]

There is no requirement to include your final destination in your initial calls, except of course if you are at a controlled airspace and reporting to the ATC for the first time

Rhino park is a formal field and should be used.

My calls would be "CFW routing from Rhino Park to Harties via the Pinedene corridor". However if you have to talk to JHB information then initialy I would give them the start and final destination

Once you are at Harties, then I would use something like "CFW routing from Harties via Brits to Kokoriba near Rooikoppies dam"

Use well known landmarks and call abeam airfields/towns etc once you are passing them

once you are above 1500ft agl then you have to talk to JHB information anyway

[Morph]

As far as just exploring, I would use something like "Traffic in the Brits area, CFW 5 miles east of Brits, 6500ft, will be in this area for the next 20 minutes"

or even just short chunks, "CFW routing via Brits to Paradise airfield" then "CFW routing from Paradise airfield to Rooikoppies damn"

Remember it is important to use the "Traffic in the XXXX area" or "Paradise Traffic" (when at an airfield) when you start your conversation. This immediately tells everybody else on that frequency if you are near them or not. Here I would definately use very well known landmarks, Towns, dams, mountain ranges

[Wargames]

Agree with morph. There is no set way. You must just talk in a way so that you are understood.

And please never ever use the following: "Trafic in the 1248, AVL at 2000ft overhead klipheuwel routing fisantekraal".

Rather say: "Klipheuwel trafic, AVL at 2000ft, overhead klipheuwel routing fisantekraal."

Then there is no confusion.

As rule use the following:

Area trafic,
My name,
My type,
Where am I,
My altitude,
Where I go.

This would leave you with something that all understand. Don't worry to much about where to communicate. The only "where" is at frequency changes. And then, rather use towns as reference point, rather than airfields. As with where you go, use something within 15min flying as reference to where you go rather than lets say an hour. Then you should be good.

Enjoy it.

Regards,

[t-bird]

The reporting points between Waterkloofs airspace and Hartbeespoort dam are the following
Red and white radio mast , Gero tec , Attridgeville and Pellindaba

Over harties
Peacon wood, Southern , northen shores

Past the Dam wall
HBV- beacon
ODI – Airstrip this would be east of your track
Aviatiors paradise

At Brits
Look out for the Gliders on weekend over the ridge
Brits guys are accommodating , switch to Brits and report your intentions.

Near kokoriba
The guys usually use the various dams as reporting points.
Just make sure of the names , I think Klipvoor and Pienaarsrivier dam
Some of the guys will also report in relation to Dikololo

Let me know when you are planning to fly. I would like to join you.

Regards

Callie

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Depends greatly on your speed as well..

I would do as follows...
Gryo (helps oukes to know what to look for and calc speed) CFW Rhino to Harties via Pinedene and current posi, alt, CFW

then under FAWB control in Pinedene only speak when told. (If uncontrolled. Inbound, Pindene station, outbound)

Exit Pindede I would
Gryo CFW pinedene to Harties via xyz current posi and alt.

At Harties
Gryo CFW Harties for next xyz min (routing clockwise/anticlockwise around dam for eg) current posi and alt.

Leaving harties
Gryo CFW Harties to Kokoriba (just north of Britz) current posi and alt...

etc...

Don't make radio call every 2 mins or any other fixed min apart. Listen and look out, especially when busy. If you low level listen for other gyro, ml and choppers specifically. if higher up listen more for bliks.... use strength of radio broadcast to judge distance from you. if it feint, they are prob miles away.... if it loud try to see him before you jump on the horn. Easier to say I have you in you 3'o clock rather than Hey Bru where you?, he says near harties, you say so am I, he says OK keep lookout, you say OK I will too, ok where you now and whole deal starts again. Chances of a mid air are slim especially when closing speeds are slow.... pick your reporting points.

On above route it should not be necessary (depending on other traffic) to make more than maybe 5 calls once you exit Pinedene. R28 K'dorp highway, Harties, exit SRW, Abeam brits and nearing destination... Obviously traffic will dictate, but less time on radio and more time enjoying flight. Try to get a mental picture of what going on. I cringe everytime I hear a guy outbound from FAGC reporting, R28, Chcken farms, Ernie else, Pelendaba, Southern Shore, Northern Shore. He spends maybe 70% of his flight on radio. He is also the guy who will ask last caller to repeat position when they are near Vaaldam and so feint he can hear jack.... Be sensible and look out... Remember it not law to have a radio to fly in uncontrolled airspace.....

my 2c...

[t-bird]

Hi RV4ker

I am not saying that you should report at all these points but be aware of them.

This will help to have a general idea of where the other aircraft is.

If you are new to the area make sure one know these points and put them on the GPS.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Hi RV4ker

I am not saying that you should report at all these points but be aware of them.

100%....

Just be aware of over reporting....

[Low Level]

Thanx guys. I understand reporting points and routes. My question would be, do I use well known points i.e. Kitty hawk instead of Rhino park, even if I took off from Rhino. One reason being, going through Pinedene, reporting to Waterkloof on route to Rhino park, after a silence, the question came from Waterkloof tower" Eeeish, where is Rhino ?" Often blik pilots in the area also does not know where Rhino park is, therefore does not have the foggiest idea about the route.

And for instance I would be flying to Kokoriba and reporting, but somebody flying in the Brits a/f area, don't know Kokoriba, wouldn't know i'm like 2miles from him, and starts blowing his horn - thanx George - when he gets me visual, unknown its me that has just reported.

Lastly, just using the above route as example, would I report, CFW on route from Rhino to Harties, and upon past Harties change my call to CFW routing from Harties to Kokoriba, or will I call CFW routing from Rhino to Kokoriba via Harties on the whole trip, which might become a lenghty tx.

I would do as follows...
Gryo (helps oukes to know what to look for and calc speed)

Interesting - my first instructor is a GPL, and insisted on calling Gyroplane XXX.... . My second instructor is a GPL/CPL and insisted on keeping the call as short as possible, no i.d. just CFW. Me I prefer Gyroplane XXX.

[Tumbleweed]

Check out the side of the JHB air map, shows reporting points i.e. Silver ball, Pinedine with GPS co-ords and frequencies.

Agree with identification then reg i.e. gryo XYZ, even Windlass or microlight AZK, gives a reference to speed and look-out. Altitude is nice since many forget to fly the required height to direction in special rules.

[KFA]

Always a good idea to give aircraft type and ETA for destination or via point, most pilots have some sort of idea of the speed of certain aircraft types and can then use it to judge your track and next position over time, especially if they cross your path.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

I usually say routing from (current posi) to next CP, rather than from Rhino to koko via harties presently approx 3.6784 naaaautical miles from the red and white radio mast on the western side of the Hartebeespoordt Dam on the Northern ridge of the magalliesburg mountains. Any conflicting traffic please respond.....

PS
Above is just example of what I hear every day (more so from blik trainees).... If it quiet it usually means there is no 1 else around. Enjoy it. if busy look outside rather than focus on radio.

Another thing that often works is Traffic in Harties area, this is bla bla then traffic anywhere else does not have to bother listening any further. I also sometimes close with call sign and area (eg CFW Harties as opposed to just CFW. many only start listening late and saves them having to say "say again"...)

Enjoy. It is a very lekka route....

[kloot piloot]

For me, the most important information is to hear the aircraft type, then the "general traffic in Harties area ..", and alltitude. This immediatelly elliminates a lot of options. If I am also in the Harties area and same altitude, only then will I ask the broadcaster for more specifics. Your first call in a new geographical area should be as short as possible. Call sign, type, area, altitude and route. Only then ellaborate when asked for specifics.

This allows me to enjoy the flying more, and having to listen "less" specific.

Another small titbit of info: Radios are line of sight. Someone mentioned flying low. Whenever cresting a ridge, repeat your last call in case another aircraft was behind the mountain.

[DarkHelmet]

...any conflicting please respond....

I think that is a waste of airtime - it is given that if someone is nearby that they would respond - i don't think it is necessary to say that.

[kloot piloot]

...any conflicting please respond....

Agree, waste of time.