Big okes flying...

[John Boucher]

What are the weight limitations on the guys flying trikes up on the Rand besides the norm of MPL?

eg. Altitudes up there are in the 5000 to 5500 range. We as south Africans do tend to be on the large side. What would the guys that have experienced it first hand say about a the trike requirements (engine, wing & fuel... and including density altitude) for a PIC of about 110kg's and what would his limitations be PAX wise?

I know what my aircraft's limitations are and what I regard as being comfortable with.... will be interesting to see what weight shift ideas and experiences there are....

[Nkwazi]

Has this been inspired by our earlier meeting??

[John Boucher]

Oh my word... now I put my foot in it! No Sir..... I promise - NO REFERENCE

[Tracer]

Hi Bad Nav,

Maybe this will give you an idea.

Our airfield is 4800ft. With the QNH during December we actually had occasions where the Density Altitude was 8500ft and higher.

I fly a 503 Windlass with Aquilla II wing. Now this plane is excellent, it's quick (I keep up with the 582's and I'm even faster than some of them), but it lacks the climb rate.

Flying alone, no problem (I weigh approx 75kg's). When my wife wants to join (obviously can't say her weight, but together we weigh 130kg's ), I need too carefully watch the amount of fuel I add as well as the QNH. We have flown together at DA's of 7500 - 8300ft. The climb rate is very low and the aerie's engine works really hard, so I avoid long trips.

I have also taken my brother-in-law for a flip at a DA of 8100ft and he weighs 92kgs, never again. He will have to wait for winter before I take him with me again .

My biggest concern with my plane up here is that I fly on the margin. There is no room for error, especially with a PAX. I have one chance to land the plane, no way that I will be able to do a go-around (mainly cause of our obstacles and surroundings at the airfield).

Hope this gives you some kind of idea.

[RV Sometime]

Interesting topic, can anybody give some info on the difference in performance between a 503 & a 582 with the same wing & airframe combination. Most trikes seem to fall into max pilot & pax payload limitations sub 200kg mark with full tanks. My experience is with bliks, many hrs, my 235 was a beaut, could load 4 vetties, luggage, 84 gals & take off at a DA of 8500 feet easily & still make 600fpm in the climb, tapering out to 300 fpm by the time I reached FL105 or 115. The twinco being turbo just hauls the same okes at 750 fpm to Fl185. I am well aware of manufacturers specs, but am curious about the actual performance given by trikes. I am not advocating overloading at all, just would like to get an idea about the differences in mauw between bliks & trikes & how close the actual differences are.

What are the best compromise wings, makes etc for both lifting ability as well as reasonable flying speeds too????????????

[Big-D]

Mr Bad Nav - It depends very much on the trike - I am a heavy chap as you know and have had endless troubles with lift - UNTILL i started flying an Aquilla 2 - Lift no issue annymore

Some stats:

Elevation - Rosslyn Microflyers: 4300feet
QNH: 1019
Aircraft: Aquilla 2 582 ZU-DBP
Weight of PIC including suit and helmet (Me): 132kg
Fuel:40 liters
Rate of climb: 1070 fpm!!!!!!!!
Speed on climb out: 53mph
Wind: None

I have taken 96kg pax for flip, climbed at about 700fpm - No problem, take-off roll 150m, obviously limited fuel in tank though and could only fly around the patch (which is what I do anyhow)

[Tumbleweed]

It's ok flying the patch with heavy pax before it gets hot with controlled fuel but it's taking off later from a fly in when you start chewing up runway with a few trees on the end and you start regretting not getting a 582 min. Accept your limitations

[zucac]

On a recent trip to the wild coast I took off with
75 l petrol me 85 kg son 75 kg blistic shoot 20 kg lugage 10 kg.
lift off was about 10 m longer QNH 1013
my 503 had to work hard to get to 2000 ft
but up there no problim

[RV Sometime]

It's ok flying the patch with heavy pax before it gets hot with controlled fuel but it's taking off later from a fly in when you start chewing up runway with a few trees on the end and you start regretting not getting a 582 min. Accept your limitations

I have been told that a 503 at 5000' 2 up is a bit of a no no, but is there such a marked difference in performance in trikes when you are 1 up or 2 up. I did my training on the 235 from almost day dot & honestly did not feel the difference when I went solo. There was a marked difference when I was at mauw, but with all those ponies it was not a problem at any stage.

If we compare apples with apples, the 235 weighed in at mauw at just under 1600 kgs, whereas a trike weighs in at an average of 450kgs. I would like to know if there is any similarity in the aircrafts flying ability between flying at mauw for both types? Do you have to remain in ground effect whilst the speed increases & having a heavier pendulum below the wing perhaps causing a longer reaction moment to control inputs etc???

Please feed me as much info as possible, I am passionate about things like this, an enquiring mind, I have.

[Tracer]

Speaking from experience, there is definitely a huge difference when adding a PAX, to a 503 trike at 5000'. There is at least a 100 to 200 ft/m decline in climb rate, as well as at least a 5 mph airspeed decrease.

Regarding the pendulum effect that the extra weight has, doesn't delay the reaction to wing input, it obviously just takes a little bit more effort, to induce a input..