Unmanned airfield - joining procedures

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Micro's are different and thus need to be treated differently. When I took Martha (or tried to take Martha) into Rand I could not keep up with the bliks. I was on finals for 4 mins, which is as long as some take to do a whole circiut. Many trikes would have been in same situation. I don't knwo what solution is, but it is a practical problem, that some solve by have Blik LH circuits at 1000' and ML right hand circuits at 500'?

I think it is all about communication. I am guilty of often not joining overhead at unmanned field especially if I am the only aerie in the circuit. That said I try to always join to accomodate other traffic, but if I don't know they are there how can I?

I recently got into KAK at FATP for joining long finals 19. Situation as follows. Military CASA dropping meatboms overhead, 172 at thresh 19 waiting to take off and 2 others inbound. I spoke to military guys and they said they had 2 mins to DZ. Others inbound were more 5+ mins out. 172 trainer stated he would wait for the meatboms to land. I was 2000agl on heading 18 3 nm out, so suggested to facilitate the congestion I would join final 19 to get out of the meatboms way. I did so without any problems and was on taxi way when they were ready to drop. Once on ground the guys who were inbound who had not heard me talk to the military guys took huge issue and K@Ked me out for lack of airmanship. This did not sit well with me. I still maintain that what I did although not the published or possibly "correct" procedure was acceptable, fair and IMHO safer to all concerned than hanging around dodging chutes.

On the microight issue I have the following comments;
The radio's used in ML's (eg. handhelds) are often not as strong or clear as those in the bliks. The blik guys are not used to trying make out what is being said, but if they hear activity they must respond. I have never had a problem understanding what a ML pilot is saying when I listen and visualise/picture all's positions in the circuit. COMMUNICATION. If you broadcast your intentions before you do them I do not see the problem. If you are in a circuit which has both ML's and Bliks, include the fact that you are ML and your height. In the RV I often do low level tight (for bliks) circuits at Rand with a couple other trainers in the circuit, passing them on inside. At Panorama I did circuit traning with the ML's no problem, but we were all on the radio communicating our intentions. We are all pilots trying to enjoy ourselves. Treatment should be no different regardless.

At PTAR I was no 18 in the circuit for finals behind a BE58(80kts), P166 (90kts), tripacer (60kts), Glassair III (95kts). Also in the circuit were some other big piston twins(read fast approach & stall) and some very small (read slow) bliks. No radio calls, albit with ATC, but we all kept a lookout and we had no problems. It can be done. See OSH.

Think that the generalisation regarding ML pilots was grossly unfair. The issue or point I think that was being (maybe badly) made was that when training at unmanned on your own (we all do it) you tend to take short cuts. You just been flying in headwind for last 20 min straight down runway so why fly a huge circuit when you only one there? (or even teardrop landings from opposite directions) Thus when other aeries in the circuit make your intentions clear and never assume they know where the "dam" or "chimney" is. Report based on your position relative to the airfield you are at.

my 2c
FSO

[Junkie]

This used to get me really riled, nowadays just pity them...

Bye and large we have a very capable & friendly GA fraternity who know how to deal with the needs and capabilities of all types

But at times, in the pattern and when there are several GA aircraft and even the odd Heli operating - highlight the inability of GA pilots to adapt their pattern or even tolerate anything else that could concievably be able to execute multiple circuits in the time they take to do one.. or even do the unthinkable.. 'overtake' them in the pattern and we all know that it can't be done in a ML right

It's probably due to a more rigid and by the numbers training regime.
Its also probably limited to younger / less experienced guys and the odd crackerjack hotrod dude that got the latest SkyBM or AirPORCHE and needs to prove sumthing..

Imagine scene in the cockpit, of self apointed skygod (pardon the reference FF/Dave) at your local "Posh" but as yet unamed airfield (believe this sort of thing still going on)

... OH MY GOD Mary & Joseph, did u see that Jack. its one of those unholy and lesser species of flying machines, a noisy flying deckchair of sorts .. a a a MmmmmmnnggghhhhiiiCROLITE! ..how dare it fly in the same air as us, there should be a law against them... lets see if it can play by our rules, well force it to follow us in this 20nm wide circuit at 100kn - then see if it can keep up. If it dare's to ask to be let in, well quote the rules and regs at em, and force it to do a go around after weve landed

aaaarrgghhh give me a break


Yours truly
"Aspirant GA pilot wannabe"

[ICEMAN]

I need my 2cents worth on this aswell:

FIRSTLY:
The writer of the original avcom posting, claims not to generalize , then picks out a specific aviation group <read microlights> and proceedes to pull them and their training courses apart..... all of us might i add!!!! Has he met or flown with you, because he ceratinly hasnt met or flown with me

SECONDLY:
My understanding of the avaiation rules, particulary when landing, is to EXPIDITE the flow of circuit traffic safely and quickly.......... how long will it take me to climb to 2000ft agl in a active circuit at 48mph, when i can safely land and vacate a runway from 500ft ???? How quickly will i vacate the circuit when im on SHORT finals for 20mins????

THIRDLY:
Cuircuit patterns are adapted to the size and speed of aircraft eg compare JIA`s circuit size/altitude to Rand as an example. In addition, i do not see the helicopters arriving and departing from JIA on the same racecourse pattern as the 747`s...... WHY..... because the ATC has enough CDF to modify the landing and take off requirements according to the aircrafts size/speed etc.....

FOURTHLY:
I have observed A FEW blik planes not observing the general aviation airmanship around my field (microland...) Its fairly regular to have a blik fly right through the circuit and directly over the field at 300ft or less.... no radio call (newsflash: we are on the map, so is the radio frequency, call us, we will answer you ). A few years ago i had two planes in formation (harvards), intercept my finals.... they passed less than 200ft infront of me... Needless to say i resorted to some excectional manouvers to avoid the turbulance. Does that make the radio courses for the all PPL`s inadequate:?: or their map reading course?? OR does it reflect on two pilots only


Perhaps the writer meant to say " a few pilots from ALL aviation catagories" do not follw procedures, as opposed to "ALL microlight pilots.... ".

The bottom line: COMUNICATION FROM ALL AVIATORS, not just the MPLS

Phew, i need to lie down after that release of testosterone!!!
Fly safe

[Mc Guyver]

As at the 24th November 2005 the following procedures will apply in Australia:

Standard positional broadcast:

Before taxing
Before entering the runway (with intentions)
Clear of the runway.

Inbound:
By 10 NM from the aerodrome
When entering the circuit

Circuit:
Downwind
Base
Final (with intentions)

Outbound:
Departing contrary to circuit direction

Straight in approach only permitted with radio equiped aircraft:
3 NM
1 NM with intentions

Standard circuit heights:

Jets/Turbo etc. normal downwind speed greater than 120 KT 1500' AGL
Typically single-engine piston 1000' AGL
Helicopters 500'AGL
Ultralights with a max speed of 55 KTS 500' AGL

Aircraft conducting straight in approach must be established on final by
5 NM

Ultralights with a max speed of 55 KT should give way to all other traffic

Give way rules in the circuit:

Aircraft established in the circuit have right of way
Aircraft entering via 45 degrees to downwind must give way to downwind traffic
Aircraft entering from the dead side must give way to aircraft established in the circuit and to aircraft entering via 45 degrees to downwind.

All positional broadcast should be given while turning if possible so as to be more visible.

These procedures are basically the same as I was taught in S.A.
It seems to be the most practical for a mixed airfield!!

[Junkie]

Thanks McG ..

We have a very good system at our GA field with separate circuits running for slow a/c (Trikes & Basics) and other (Gyros/3-axis/GA/Heli) .

> Airfield is 400'AMSL
> Trikes & slow conventional(read Basics) at 900' @ about 1 Nm
> 3-Axis at 1200' @ about 2 Nm
> Helicopters use cross runway, when other traffic in circuit
> Big faster tin adapt to go out further and higher if necassary

> Joining
Calls at 5nm inbound from any direction, join & call overhead at 2000'(1600 agl), descend deadside, lefthand turns. Aiming to cross over at approx 1200' enroute to crosswind/downwind turn position, at this point planing placment into circuit with relevant r/t request to other A/C if insertion is possible. If not, plan pattern & vary speed accordingly to adjust to other traffic. Seldom is it required for anyone to extend downwind, but it is an option.

> Downwind
When established downwind, call with Type, position# & intentions
- this helps to reconfirm & allows others to plan their patterns accordingly.

> Call Base (and position # if still relevant)
> Call Final and intentions
> ....and there is ALWAYS the option of calling & executing a missed approach when runway activity /turbulance considerations require it

It also does not mean that UL pilots are forever jumping the queue or holding up faster traffic. but yes, we do have UL & GA pilots that don't comply and dont even try to stick to the basics

Prefer not to have anything bombing about overhead in any kind of holding pattern or giving way when it's not necassary
Another reason to re-consider is weather, as at times it may not be practical for UL in adverse weather conditions, that has little effect on other aircraft.

IT WORKS!, and just needs little more in attention and consideration on the part of everyone.

[Eugenedupreez]

Thanks Demon for posting this from AVCOM. I also read it on AVCOM a week or so ago. My first reaction was being cheesed-off by the arrogant blik aerie pilots (very generalized statement). I then calmed down and starting thinking about an incident some 3 weeks ago within the Wonderboom CTR. The long and the short of it is that a microlight pilot (unfortunately I did not get his registration no) had extremely poor radio work and thus kept the friendly lady ATC very busy explaining how one should do radio work in controlled airspace (basics, like read back etc.). I realized that this single microlight kept the frequency busy for at least 10 times the amount of time required by all the other aircraft in the air
space at that time (luckily not a very busy time at all). What should we do with criticism like this?? Try and warrent our actions by saying that blik aerie pilots also some times have poor radio work? No I don't think this will get us anywhere, let us rather put things in place to rectify (we already know something is not right) this.

[kill_devil]

Demon, this is most interesting.

About a month ago 7 of us were passing through Middelburg enroute to Lydenburg and landed for a break. On taking off on 14 we heard someone call long finals on 32 (no location given). Repeated requests to this last caller to identify himself and his position were ignored. More than one trike asked. No aircraft was visible. No joining overhead had occurred. All trikes called entry onto 14 and again on takeoff, still no response. After the 5th trike was airborne, eventually a Cessna was seen approaching with all the bits flapping out from his wing. The 6th trike on the runway called again advising him to overshoot and this time he heard and aborted.

So "they" make mistakes too it seems. Or should we have known somehow that he was landing at Middelburg?

There's some good stuff in this thread, worth thinking about.

[Mc Guyver]

What I failed to mention in my last message:
Broadcasts in Australia must be as per the following example:
Middelburg traffic
Microlight CGA
Long finals for runway 32
Middelburg

From what we learnt in SA the call sign was repeated and not the destination.
This new system certainly seems to be the better one!!

[Fairy Flycatcher]

Something PPL training focuses on strongly, is procedure. So its perfectly normal to expect some PPL guys out there to not understand airmanship, as they confuse airmanship with procedure.

At La Mercy we see all sorts, but airmanship has to do ( I believe) 1stly with situational awareness. Know where you are, know where other aircraft are, and fly with good manners. For good airmanship you need a lot of experience, and a whole lot of knowledge, because amongst many other things, you need to know a variety of aircraft types, their speeds and limitations. You should get to know the people in your area as wel, their flying styles and quirks, and most definitely the airfields with their own way of doing things.

Radio procedure and joining procedure assists with this, but by no means does it constitute airmanship.

[C205]

Interesting. At Witbank on Sunday morning I was doing a few circuits when I heard an aircraft approaching and joining downwind for runway 04, which is the tar runway along with 22 used by the blik aeries. Two fixed wing aircraft in the circuit for 04, no problem. A few circuits later a small taildragger on a very tight left base for 35 the microlight runway used almost exclusively by trikes. Now this was interesting as I was right base for 35 (we do a right circuit on 35 as this puts us out of the way of the blik aeries). Some avoiding action (and swear words which luckily he didn't hear) on my part and I landed number one with the taildragger behind.
I do realise that he may not have been familiar with FAWI and the right hand circuit, but he must have heard the other aircraft on the tar runway, why did he choose the dirt 35? There was obsolutely no wind on the ground and the windsock lay flat against the pole. Also I called several times to say I was doing right circuits on 35 because I knew he may not be aware.
One more on joining overhead - PLEASE Don't join overhead when paradropping is in progress at FAWI (weekends). We had a near-incident with a local pilot (who should have known better and was on radio - confirmed the drop too!) while our aircraft was dropping skydivers last weekend. We do call on local frequency on each drop.
Sorry if I'm going on a bit, but both incidents wound me up somewhat.

[skybound®]

There are a few aspects to this debate.

Firstly, I think we have to admit that as Microlighters, we do come from a shady background where when ML was new on the scene (10-15years ago) there were many a cowboy involved, hardly anybody flew with radios, had no idea of airspace and it's correct use.......etc.

In the PE area we addressed these issues and made a concerted effort to improving our reputation with the rest of the local flying community. We began attending the regional ATNS meetings, ensured our pilots flew with radios and used them correctly, stuck to proper procedures etc.

It all paid off when at one of the ATNS meetings, one of the PPL flying schools commented that the MLers should be used as an example of a fraternity that has sorted its act out and were the most professional in the area when it came to radio work.

So what I am saying is that is no good just to bleat back at the tin can pilots - get out there and do something positive about it to improve the face of MLers.

Second point is that if we as a community are suggesting ignoring the accepted (and legislated) proper joining procedures then we deserve to be pushed to the bottom of the pile and branded as hooligans. You cannot invoke special rule for each situation or aircraft (well certainly not without a Notam/AIP etc) as that does cause havoc.

For instance if a pilot was to join a circuit, they would expect to find all traffic doing a left hand pattern and would look out for the traffic. If you at a local level decide to do a right hand there is a chance that you may not be seen by the joining traffic and an incident could occur. What good will that do for our reputation that you are all so eager to protect? If you want to do it any other way - do it via the correct channels and have Notams issued or legislation changed - that is the only way that we will keep ourselves safe.

[C205]

You're right Skybound but where there are aircraft already in the circuit ren't you supposed to join the already established pattern? If I approach an airfield and the traffic is downwind 04 - I will join behind him for 04, not decide to go to a totally different runway.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

205
Am with you on that one, but some of the taildraggers (wheelers ) don't like tar.

[skybound®]

You're right Skybound but where there are aircraft already in the circuit ren't you supposed to join the already established pattern? If I approach an airfield and the traffic is downwind 04 - I will join behind him for 04, not decide to go to a totally different runway.

Yes I agree that you should use the runway and circuit pattern, but it is not the correct practice to just join in behind him without joining correctly (climbing above circuit altitide, descend on the dead side etc) or you may end up pushing in front of another aircraft that is joining correctly and worse still not seeing him.

[Fairy Flycatcher]

Publishing different joining procedures in the NOTAMS or AIP subs are fine, as long as it is a licenced airfield.

If it is an unlicenced airfield, where most MPLs fly, it is up to the pilot to find out what the local rules are. Each place will be unique, and there are many factors which affect it. Skydiving, model aircraft, hang gliding, gliding, different speed aircraft etc. You can NOT join at a Private airfield, as per standard procedure, without finding out what the local rules are, and then think it is good airmanship.


At La Mercy some of the rules are as follows:

If Alf Pettit, who is 87 and joins anywhere anytime, just about never on radio, cuts in in front of me, I do a holding turn, because as far as I'm concerned, while he's in the sky, he owns it. :D

The guys out of flips, and the skydive aircraft have right of way, and join straight in on finals, as they run agains the hobs, to make any kind of profit, and the other guys who fly, fly for fun, so a holding turn should not be an issue.

If there are skydivers / hang glider on final though, everyone stays away. When hang gliders are on tow, or released over the airfield, you don't join overhead.

Light aircraft circuit to the east, wide, on the other side of the model aircraft. Microlights do a tight circuit to the West, so that they don't encroach on the helicopter training, further West.

You do a standard left hand join here, you will on most days exhibit bad airmanship, as you will conflict with too much other traffic.

So to us, its not about the procedure, its about knowing the airfield, and the pilots and the local way of doing things. If the local way of doing things is standards joining procedure, this makes it obviously much easier to remember when you are new to the area.