Ballistic shute debacle ??

Harlequin · Postby **Harlequin** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:26 pm

Afternoon.
Hearing winds in the passage again.
Can anyone in the know assist? Rudi--solo wings?
Only a rumour at this stage. Is the CAA refusing to allow the passing out of aircraft by APâ€™s which have had ballistic shute's fitted??
I had mine fitted by solo wings when I bought the trike. Ie; no mods done??
What happens when a post mod is undertaken? Red tape and a recertification?
Comments please.
Safety being the prime driver in fitting a shute, find this one bit tough to swallow!!!!!!!
Graham.

ZU-CDW - Shark · Postby **ZU-CDW - Shark** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:53 pm

This is a very good question. See no reason why there should be any problem with this as it adds to safety.

Brett, please shead some light on this seeing that you just had one fitted.

Relborg · Postby **Relborg** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:12 am

I had a chute fitted recently to my Raptor and needed to do a mod application. Not a simple process.

Aircraft needs to be signed out by AP after chute is fitted. Photoâ€™s taken or diagrams drawn of the modification. The aircraft needs to be weighed because the original weight and balance in not the same. All this with payment is then send to CAA for approval.

Postby **Morph** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:01 pm

Put the damn thing on. If you ever need it, it's easier to say sorry afterwards, than ask permission before.

lamercyfly · Postby **lamercyfly** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:27 pm

I agree with Morph.

As an AP, I will sign out a microlight trike which has a parachute fitted.

As long as the parachute has been fitted properly :

1. Secure attatchment - prefereably industry standard fitment .
2. sensible routing of cabling
3. sensible positioning of deployment handle
4. sensible attatchment point with regard to windflow to engine and propellor and balance of trike - DONT talk mass and balance to me about a trike. If you do, then you don't know anything about trikes and best you educate yourself...

After all, I test fly all trikes I inspect, and if it flies just fine, well then, it flies just fine and that's that...

Concerning paying CAA for a MOD fee, that it ruddy bollocks, and the biggest clap trap I've heard some-one being mislead into doing.

A modification ONLY applies if what you do alters the flying characteristics of the aircraft.

Fitting a parachute as I have described above, does NOT IN ANY WAY alter the flying characteristics of a trike.

NO MOD REQUIRED!!! That's it. Now will all pilots please stand together for once and tell CAA where to get off...
I am really gatvol for how we are letting the authorities lead us by the nose. Part 24 gets bulldozed through, because that's what suited CAA, but then part 62 (which also became law on 1 Jan 2008, gets put off till 1 July, and now gets put off again, just because this time it suits them!!!!

thankyou and regards to you all.

Grumpy · Postby **Grumpy** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:41 am

lamercyfly wrote: A modification ONLY applies if what you do alters the flying characteristics of the aircraft.

Dave, interesting stuff !! Can you please confirm if this is in fact how the law reads or just your interpretation?
I'm training on a trike and have an artificial (r) leg which means that I need to do a small mod for steering (Push/pull) and swapping accelerator to the left (like Auto car) I have done medical and Spl received with no restrictions.
This in NO way affects my safety, confidence or flying characteristics. My instructor is under the impression we must get mod authority. I dont mind which ever way but it's Caa waiting and inconvenience. Your ideas please.

Frootbat · Postby **Frootbat** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:20 am

>> Hi All,
Sorry, that your posting is now butchered and that another can of worms is opened.
I would like address the following question to David.
WHY is it required, to submit a mod, if U want to add an electric fuel pump.?
As per your definition, it does not alter the flying characteristics of your aerrie, so,
must we stand our ground and ignore the mod application for this type of life saver.?

Regards,

zucac · Postby **zucac** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:19 pm

I had my shoot fitted by David who is a AP . my plane has a ATF and at the next anual it will be weighed and a new mass will be submitted.But hay you guys just get it fitted ,it will save your life.fight CAA latter.
Brett

3wheels · Postby **3wheels** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:58 pm

by Morph on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:01 pm

Put the damn thing on. If you ever need it, it's easier to say sorry afterwards, than ask permission before.

Morph,

" I " fitted one two weeks ago and there is no way I am going to pay the CAA for a mod........Will cross that bridge when the next ATF comes up.

lamercyfly · Postby **lamercyfly** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:35 pm

Hi folk.

My interpretation is based word for word on the definition of modification as told to me by two independent folk at CAA.

I have today called for the legal definition of the word Modification as defined in the CAR's or ANR's or AIP's or whatever/wherever.

Until then, if I had the moola, I would fit it and not worry about anything. Just have it fitted by an AP who is authorised to do repairs and maintenance, because owners are no longer allowed to work on their trikes:(

About your fuel pump, just fit the darn thing........ once again, have an AP fit it.

As long as what you do is in the interest of safety, I don't see how any reasonable person can refute the merits of fitting something that is actually a legal requirement in Germany. Parachutes are a legal requirement over there.

Cheers

Wargames · Postby **Wargames** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:37 pm

He is the way that I understand the whole modification issue:

I will use solowings just as an example.

They have a list of all parts that is allready approved by caa that they normally fit onto a trike, like instrument pod, instruments, nose fairing etc.

Now lets say that your trike does not have a nose fairing on, but you would like to have one. You just fit one, without consulting caa, because a nose fairing is already on the list of approved parts. Does a nose fairing change the flying caracteristics of your trike, for sure. Then why the issue with the chutes?? Because the manufacturers does not have it on a approved parts list. We should just get them to put it on, and no problem.

Thats my take on it. Am I wrong??

Regards,

ZU-CDW - Shark · Postby **ZU-CDW - Shark** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:39 pm

I am with David on this one.

Stand together guys....

!

Postby **Nkwazi** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:30 pm

My chute was fitted by an AP, I'm pretty confident that should a situation arise that I should need to use it (lets hope never), I would be able to justify the merits thereof to CAA

Thatchman · Postby **Thatchman** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:43 pm

I agree that one should fit it anyway but assuming that a mod approval is required (hopefully not but lets assume for now), what is the implication from an insurance point.

Say you are killed or your pax is killed. Will the insureres not try to claim that you had an unregistered mod done and try to refuse the payout?

lamercyfly · Postby **lamercyfly** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:20 pm

I don't get it. How many times do we thrash something before it dies

There is no mod required. CAA must prove that we need a mod. They cannot.

And why are you going to die if you fitted a parachute? I thought the parachute is to save you from dying? And if you fitted a parachute and were flying so low you flew into powerlines and could not deploy the parachute, well then, what has the parachute got to do with the fact that you had controlled flight into obstacle... ? I don't get the point of your question which really has a logical answer.

Stop sweating the small things, get on with microlighting the way it used to be, take control and take responsibility....

Regards.