Rotax Alternative & Others

[alanmack]

See www.misasa.co.za for the full story detailing other alternatives.
Story titled : 582 Bouquets for the CEO of the CAA

ROTAX ALTERNATIVE

This alternative seeks to run controlled and documented tests to establish reliability, value for money etc data on alternatives open to Microlighters. The initiative is being run at Skyriders which is based at Microland and is owned and operated by Fanie Deysel.

What has been achieved? Fanie Deysel has agreed to run the tests and to fully fund one alternative motor. The first motor to be explored is a BMW alternative see http://www.takeoff-ul.de/ If your German is not great you can look at the pictures. Alex Rudd (MISASA Safety Officer, AP and an Instructor at Skyriders) has a meeting at BMW South Africa on Monday to discuss and explore this alternative with a view to placing an order to be funded by Fanie. Skyriders will make available complete cost and other data on Rotax and alternatives thereto which I will publish on this website on a monthly basis.

The acquisition of another motor is proposed depending upon financial support for this alternative. You can register your support in one of two ways, or if you are a MISASA member, you can resgister your support for both.

- SMS “ Your Name & MISASA” to Alex Rudd on 082 568 8635 to register your support for Alex to Table to the MISASA Committee for consideration that MISASA must pay fully for the installed cost of a second alternative test motor, to be selected by Alex, to be fitted to a trike at Skyriders.

- SMS your name to Fanie Deysel 083 400 7622 and pledge an amount of money. You need not be a MISASA member to support this initiative. If sufficient funds are pledged then this third alternative motor will be installed.

[John Boucher]

582's are not only fitted to trikes..... 3-axis aircraft use them as well and there are quite a few of us here on Microlighters... and just b4 anyone thinks I'm being nasty, no I'm not, WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME PICKLE HERE! There is a trike fitted with a BMW Boxer motor and is referred to on one of the 582 Crunch threads.... I'll look for it an add it!

[alanmack]

The intention of this initiative is to run controlled and documented tests re purchase cost, running costs, maintenance, overhaul etc.

Skyriders have about 50+ student MPL's at any one time and they clock up hours fast. This means that factual data will be obtained relatively soon. Stories on each alternative will be written up and the motors will be on display at Skyriders on a "side by side" basis.

FlyWeight had a BMW 1100 on ZU-BOT finally he replaced it with a 582 after 4 engine outs his no is 083 626 3180. Alex is going to BMW as I believe that a new generation motor for aviation is out and is proving to be popular in Germany.

MISASA have funds and the idea is to see if the membership want some of it spent in this way. If you like the idea of current alternative testing then maybe you will pledge a few bucks.

Perhaps you have motor alternatives to suggest that can be investigated for this exercise. I made this post for this purpose.

[John Boucher]

I am all for ALTERNATIVES to ROTAX!

The german website indicates a forward facing 1150 / 1200 motor.

There was SMART applications by the Funks

Is this the installation you are referring to below?

Check the thread "Is this the end of Microlighting?" There I voiced my support to DieselFan & Zulu1....

Dont get me wrong as I indicated in my post....

I investigated changing my 582 installation to a Jab 2200 - and floating at R 150 000 - it scared the hell out of my cheque account! So much so, ABSA decided to cancel my OD?

[John Boucher]

I am all for ALTERNATIVES to ROTAX!

The german website indicates a forward facing 1150 / 1200 motor.

There was SMART applications by the Funks

Is this the installation you are referring to below?

Check the thread "Is this the end of Microlighting?" There I voiced my support to DieselFan & Zulu1....

Dont get me wrong as I indicated in my post....

[Morph]

Alex, you really need to talk to Vliegvark re BMW

They have the gearbox, the ignition remapping everything down to a T

viewtopic.php?t=6710

[Hazzard]

My story of BMW powered flight:
My experience flying a BMW powered plane was not that great, but certainly legendary in the Light Flight / Emoyeni area. Gents, I have had a number of things go wrong, least of which was 3 engine outs, one of which almost wrote off both the plane and myself. The motor is a standard boxer design, 85 horsepower, (I think), motor with dual ignition and dual spark, fitted with reduction box. It worked well, looked neat and sounded "to die for".
I bought my Raptor from a chap in JHB that had fitted the BMW because he wanted a 4 stroke. I too do not like 2 strokes and never have. Alan Mackenzie saw the plane advertised in JHB, knew my penchant for BMW and 4 stroke, and made the introduction, then left the negotiations to me. Suffice it to say that I was able to "negotiate" the price and settled on, what I believed was a good deal.
The motor worked well for a while but the problems and experiences, as listed below convinced me that I should swallow my pride, fit a 2 stroke Rotax and be done with it. This I did and never looked back. To the issues:

• It is heavier than a Rotax
• It was dual ignition, but worked off the BMW ignition system, so was reliant on the battery, (not magneto driven, so when the generator packed up it ran on battery for a while then the motor stopped)
• A long stroke motor with push rod valve operation

My feeling was that, because it was the older generation motor, with a long stroke and no overhead cam, it was doomed to fail. You simply cannot expect that type of motor to run at 4 to 5000 rpm continuously. The final straw in the life of the motor was that it dropped a valve over Light Flight airfield. I landed dead stick quite safely, but finally much wiser.
Conclusion: To my mind, the earlier BMW motors are not an option. Following my motor failure I did a lot of homework prior to going Rotax 582. There are a few 4 stroke alternatives, some purpose made for aviation and able to deliver the requisite power to weight ratio. I am quite willing to believe that the new BMW motor with the short stroke overhead cam configuration may well be the answer, I don’t know. If you chaps are going to look at alternatives though I believe you should be approaching the manufacturers / agents and ask for them to do the trials under controlled conditions. Do your comparisons and draw your conclusions, or look at what overseas is doing, particularly the areas that are phasing out 2 strokes. Trials and testing costs a lot of money. Even if you find that "perfect" motor, it may not be the best alternative

[John Boucher]

Is the above photo your trike before engine replacement?

[vliegvark]

On the theme of the BMW motors there are thing one can do and thing one can't do

all old motor are out , that is a they say the airheads the newer oil heads they way to go

reason is short stroke , oil cooling , weight alot better ( R1200 engine are the best)
then one must make the oil cooler bigger and have more than one oil temp to make sure the motor is cooling that is a +-20c lose after cooler
then I believe one must run two computer boxes so you can't just take the motor off the bike and stick it in your plane one must change it to do the job.

I believe in these R1200 motors so much so that I am buying motor were i can i believe in these motor because i fly one and it ROCKS
mytrike has 60 hr on a R1200GS motor and my dad has 200hr on a R1100S motor both trike

the key to a engine is one must be happy with it and safe
and never foget any machine has feeling so talk to her and give her a kiss if she took you were you wanted to go and if she brought you back

there a lots of good engines to fly with I just happen to have a super BMW engine

[gertcoetzee]

ja ja ja jan, maar wat van ons ouens wat nie meganies is nie. Waar koop ons , en laat ons die bmw installeer?

[Pumba]

Allan

It has always astounded me that there are so few alternatives in SA. I spent some time in the USA, and while Rotax dominates there as well, those guys fly with all sorts of engines, including some real junk!

I have always wanted a 4 stroke engine and started seriously investigating the options. Eventually I fitted a Verner VM 133 M 4 stroke on my trike in June last year. CAA approved a Proving Authority to Fly for 20 hours which I have now completed. I'm in the process of getting the mod approval signed off right now, and should hopefully have the next year's ATF approved in the next few days. Twenty engine hours is early days but it looks promising.

What can I say about this engine?

Pros:

It is powerful, produces oodles of torque.
It runs on a whiff of fuel compared to the 2 strokes.
It idles along at 4000 rpm in sraight and level flight.
TBO is at 1000 hours and you never need to replace the crank.
It sounds super cool.
It even looks like a real aircraft engine.

Cons:

The local agent seems to have thrown in the towel, so support and spares need to be obtained from Europe. (I dealt with the factory when I was doing the installation, and the guys were great.)
They cannot process Credit Card Transactions in Czech, so you have to wire the money for spares. I did order some parts from the dealer in the USA, great service and advice.
Limited data base, with relatively little reliability data available.
It would be prone to serious overheating in a pusher configuration if the installation is not performed properly.
It rotates in the opposite direction to the 582, so you need to replace the prop as well.

In terms of your testing program, I would have a serious look at the Verner, and also the HKS engines.

Fly safe

Barry

[vliegvark]

ja ja ja jan, maar wat van ons ouens wat nie meganies is nie. Waar koop ons , en laat ons die bmw installeer?

ek is besig om daar aan te werk met die bou van die Bosvark behoort ek alles te he^ dat mens hom net soos 'n 912 kan koop

[Boet]

As the saying goes...... WATC THIS SPACE!!

[John Boucher]

Boet, ek raak nou nogal ongeduldig met al hierdie "nice" moontlikhede.... maar soos jy se - check die spasie!

[Griffin]

Allan...
I have always wanted a 4 stroke engine and started seriously investigating the options. Eventually I fitted a Verner VM 133 M 4 stroke on my trike in June last year. .....

Cons:

The local agent seems to have thrown in the towel, ...

Barry

They seem to be popular in Europe. I have read on the X-Air forum (another case of the local agent throwing in the towel ??) that they use them on all the models with great success.





I would love to see some one in SA grab both agencies and run with them.