Is this the end of microlighting in S.A. ?

[skybound®]

Skybound,

My engine had a piston replaced at 400 hours and is currently standing on 420. Al other maintenance is done according to plan. I have about 5 hours before I need to replace spark plugs and gearbox oil.

Am I missing something?? Can I go and fly legally, and what will "speedcop" say if they stop me at airfield??

Depends on who replaces your spark plugs. Currently only an AP/AME/AMO can do that.

If all other 39 items up to date - then IMHO would say you are a-ok. As things stand now - we could end up re-reading these statements in a months time and would be rubbish - as hopefully we will be going back to something closer to what was 'normal'

As far as stopping you at the airfield - I think the skway patrolman will have a hard time proving that you are not airworthy since the aircraft logbook does not have to be kept with the aircraft - for instance it may be safe at your house. Not sure if there will be a procedure of them calling on that at some point. It would make more sense for them to call for the log books when the APs are audited. This is how the AMOs work.

Here again the big BUT. The skway cop may not prove it at the airfield - but have an accident/incident - be sure the log books could be called upon.

[Morph]

Looks like they (CAA)may extend to either 400 or 450 but nothing past that.

......you may get an extension at their discretion.

If you are at 450 sorry for you but you need a new crank.

All the same thing. 300hours, 450hours? Who at CAA has the technical knowledge and know how to decide that a crank has a max of 450 hours (at their discretion mind you) on it. I know most 503's go way beyond that.

I'm into biking and the SA bike dealerships do a similar thing, every 12000km their maintenance manual says "replace spark plugs". However because the bike has Iridium plugs installed they only need to be replaced at 48000km. I had a moerse battle with these guys to not touch 4 X R400 per plug. Eventually I had to sign an indemnity to say, I was prepared to take the risk. When I finally sold my bike I had saved over R5000 unnecessary service fees. Maybe we need to do the same thing. I'm prepared to sign an indemity to say CAA are not responsible for my engine out at 1145 hours because I did not change the crank unneccesarily every 300hours.

Imagine if the traffic department insisted that all cars on the road have to be maintained by the agent, whether you like it or not otherwise you would not be able to renew for your licence. I'd call it blackmail

[Wargames]

Morph,

I had a chat with tsotsi at the GM and said something of a machine that can test your engine to see whether it is still within spec. Cost about R200 or so. Surely if this is accurate, this is the way to go. Have your engine tested, if it is safe, you can fly. If it not safe, I would in any case recommend a change. As safety always comes first.

Any opinion of that machine?? Maybe tsotsi can give a bit more info on where and what this machine is!

[Aerosan]

Imagine if the traffic department insisted that all cars on the road have to be maintained by the agent, whether you like it or not otherwise you would not be able to renew for your licence. I'd call it blackmail

if it looks like it, smells like it then what is it

[Morph]

Morph,

I had a chat with tsotsi at the GM and said something of a machine that can test your engine to see whether it is still within spec.

There is a method of testing your crank wear using a vacuum type device. You pull one of the plugs, insert this thing, then using a vacuum you can measure the movement on the crank. No need to crack the engine. I personally have not used one, nor seen it work, but there are a lot of guys who can vouch for it.

[Windsock]

Man, it's going to be interesting to see on what basis CAA justify the extension of crank replacements...........

[Chunky]

[quote="skybound"] My engine had a piston replaced at 400 hours and is currently standing on 420. Al other maintenance is done according to plan. I have about 5 hours before I need to replace spark plugs and gearbox oil.

Am I missing something?? Can I go and fly legally, and what will "speedcop" say if they stop me at airfield??

Depends on who replaces your spark plugs. Currently only an AP/AME/AMO can do that.

If all other 39 items up to date - then IMHO would say you are a-ok. As things stand now - we could end up re-reading these statements in a months time and would be rubbish - as hopefully we will be going back to something closer to what was 'normal'

As far as stopping you at the airfield - I think the skway patrolman will have a hard time proving that you are not airworthy since the aircraft logbook does not have to be kept with the aircraft - for instance it may be safe at your house. Not sure if there will be a procedure of them calling on that at some point. It would make more sense for them to call for the log books when the APs are audited. This is how the AMOs work.

Here again the big BUT. The skway cop may not prove it at the airfield - but have an accident/incident - be sure the log books could be called upon.[/quote]

Skybound this is incorrect.

An AP that does not have the Heavy maintenance certificate from rotax may not change the crank or any internals on the engine.

You also need to check another thing. Most AP's are only Inspection rated and not maintenance rated. The CAA will not accept any maintenance by an AP that is not maintenance rated. Most AP's who are signing out microlights are only inspection rated. So there in lies another problem.

About 90% of all NTCA aircraft will be grounded within a few weeks I reckon.

[Rudix]

As far as maintenance is concerned, if I built it I will maintain it, nobody knows it better than I do.

If they don't like that I will see them in court, I have had enough of the BS

And the "extensions" on the crank life ?? Also BS, I can see that VERY soon I will be launching a new range of 2 stroke engines in SA, they will come complete with factory manuals that makes no mention of silly crank replacement and it will state that ALL maintenance can be done by the owner.

I will be accepting RATTEX trade-ins :D

Fly safe (with your 300h plus crank :D)
Rudi

[JACO]

Hi all

What happened to the Crank hour subject / survey that Leprachaun started on 8 Jan 2008 ? Would be interesting to see what the results was. Are you still going to submit your findings to CAA, and their comments ?

[skybound®]

Skybound this is incorrect.

An AP that does not have the Heavy maintenance certificate from rotax may not change the crank or any internals on the engine.

You also need to check another thing. Most AP's are only Inspection rated and not maintenance rated. The CAA will not accept any maintenance by an AP that is not maintenance rated. Most AP's who are signing out microlights are only inspection rated. So there in lies another problem.

About 90% of all NTCA aircraft will be grounded within a few weeks I reckon.

Very good point Chunky - I was asking this exact question on the Rotax TBO thread -> viewtopic.php?t=6495. This would probably be more dictated by the manufacturer. At least it does not state that you require an authorised Rotax centre for the other 39 bits - it only says it for the overhaul bit.

This then also brings in the question that I posed to CAA but never got an answer. If you had your Rotax overhauled by a person other than an approved Rotax service station before 31 Dec 2007, does it qualify as having been maintained in accordance with the schedule? There must be some phasing in process surely?

Let us hope that we dont even need these questions answered at the end of this month (if not sooner) .

[RV4ker (RIP)]

I spent the afternoon at CAA cos I want to Fly this weekend. Without going into any detail, I am no longer in the market for a 2 stroke trike or any 2 stroke powered aircraft for that matter. The VW powered Cubby has just increased in value by R35K (roughly equivalent of the Rattex 582 O/H costs). I am very pleased tha I did not fit the 582 and rather opted to zero the VW. Funny how many would argue that the 582 is a better aviation engine, yet the VW did 700 trouble free training school hrs and then was only opened because I felt like it and cost half what the 582 would have at 300...

Bottom line - The RATTEX manual says replace the Crank at 300hrs - END OF STORY. Statements like"Yip this is the end of the 582 in SA" do not seem out of place, based on what I heard and there was general agreement. Although this seems drastic the only way to change any of this is to get RATTEX to change the manual which they will not do IMHO. Soo as said above. If you fly a 582, budget extra R100 - R120 per hr for the new crank and the other maintenance items SB refers to. The only way to fly legally is to comply with the Rattex approved maintenance plan (ie replace crank after 300hrs and the other 39 issues in between).

Route of going "experimental" was also met with "If it a Rattex Crank it MUST be replaced at 300hrs", so even if you build your own engine and use a RATTEX crank in it, you MUST replace it after 300 hrs? eg.. Use a jetski engine with the 582 crank.

I mooted my post above regarding allowing it in the past and thus by their actions condoning it and reply was that the AP signs the report thus certifying that the maintenance was done according to the CAA approved "approved maintenance plan" and he is thus responsible, not CAA. They thus never "said" it OK to operate engine over 300hrs without replacing crank, the AP did by signing the release to service/AP inspection. (I still question this, but that is their position).....

Secondly
As Chunky says - If AP does not have a repairmans certificate he may not do the work (What it involves to get repairmans I don't know, but it apprenticeship and some exams I am told).

In summary (my 2c)
Taking a step back I fail to see the point of all this BS. What are CAA trying to save the 2 stroke drivers from and where is their liability? If you write yourself off after managing the risks what is the problem. There is risk associated with aviation and legislating it all away is not possible although it seems they (CAA) are hell bent on trying. Microlighting hsa it's roots in home building and EAA types who were chased away from GA when fuel prices in 70's went through the roof. Is the reason microlighting even exists not as a direct result of the "freedom" to experiment with cheaper alternatives not governed by legislation and that is why we do not qualify for a certificate of airworthiness and are not allowed to take pax for reward. I was of the opinion that they have missed the boat, but I now feel the boat never got on the water as its approved maintenance manual said exposure to water may cause swelling of the wood and thus the department (CAA) would not let them put it in the water....

I fear I have lost faith...... Experimental aviation in this country has come and gone....

[Morph]

I recieved a call from a Rotax representitive, regarding my email I sent them this morning. and I quote

To whom it may concern

Could you please email me the document that specifies/recommends/demands/insists the replacement of the crank shaft every 300 hours for the 503 and 582 engines. This statement is NOT in the current maintenance manual. Our local CAA are enforcing this rule and effectively have grounded all Rotax engined aircraft in South Africa who have exceeded 300 hours and not replaced this component. However we have over the last 18 years of flying proven that this is a very expensive and completely unnecessary thing to do so as such have refrained from doing so. We have 503 engines in daily use running up to 1200 hours without crank shaft replacement

Currently I see the sales of Rotax engines dramatically drop/stop and them being replaced with more cost effective engines with longer TBO’s. The entire fleet of Rotax-powered planes now have the following options,

1. R35000 parts and labour to perform the 300 hour service.
2. R55000 replace the engine with a new 503/582, which will need the 300 hour service in the near future,
3. Dump the Rotax product and go for HKS, Jabiru and Hirth, cheaper to buy with longer TBO’s

I am the administrator of the largest microlight forums in South Africa, representing a community of 1600 pilots. The general consensus is option 3, dump Rotax

There are a number of threads regarding this, here is one of them - viewtopic.php?p=62946#62946

Greg Perkins, aka Morph
http://www.microlighters.co.za
Forum Administrator, Aircraft Owner and Pilot

There is a document (which I will post as soon as I receive it) from Rotax stating that Rotax recommend the replacement of the crank on the 532, 582 and 618 motors every 300 hours.

What they do NOT have is a document recomending the same thing for the 503

CAA do not have a leg to stand on for the 503

[Ranger]

Hell Morph if that's the case i will be flying legally this weekend.
Still. Get a pain in my arse when i think of further supporting rotax.
Calling the HKS importers to show their support and sell the first 10 motors at cost. I'll be the first to place my order to help close the rotax 2 stroke business in S.A.

[kraaines]

Herewith my question, HOW do you test a crank or crank wear?

in lieu of costing and "destruction rate":

Non destructive testing methods, dyna testing, ultrasonic testing methods, dyes etc are used on metal objects in various industries to determine metalurgical uniformity, abnormal anomalies and power output bla bla bla.
Also the option of oil sampling/analysis at regular intervals. The advantage of picking up increasing levels of various metalic elements, larger wear particles, water, degraded oil etc. Prevention is better that cure, and if you can predict it you can plan it. (see website for wearcheck)

further more, if all measurables "measure" in spec why mess with it? why open an engine if your you can determine power performance on dynanometer(spelling???) and determine many other deviations from the norm or standards.
When you overhaul an engine, you have a "run in" period, my guess is: this is when you do not want to be the "test pilot"

[Aviation Engines]

THIS MESSAGE IS IN MY PERSONAL CAPACITY!
I have been reading most of the comments for some time now, while I symphathise with most you and understand that your comments are based on emotion, I can no longer tolerate the offending comments being made.
I am now very annoyed!

In my 18 years of working with Rotax engines and with most of you, I have never been so insulted as I have been recently. Rotax and Aviation Engines has been an excellent product and been most instrumental in the development of this market. I have always worked extremely hard to support all of you in whatever your requirements, even in cases where we haven't even supplied the engines, with warranty, FREE telephonic support, etc.

We hold stock of all parts, provide training, do the warranty for you guys, technical support, etc ..........and now you want to go to HKS/Jabiru, VW.............you do it, get the support from those engine manufacturers that you'll have been enjoying from us for all the years, I want to see that, I will inform my Son, he would perhaps also still be waiting, yes thats how confident I am. I challenge any other engine manufacturer to provide the service and support that Aviation Engines and I have been doing so far.

We have been working very hard recently in an attenpt to resolve these issues with CAA to look after YOU, our customer!

I think that you guys have been behaving like a bunch of babies..........come guys lets be objective about it, work with CAA, find common ground, they too have a job to do.

I get calls all the time from people asking for information that is contained in the manuls.............just shows how many of you have actually read the manuals!

How many of you still have the Operators Manual with you? Let alone read it!
How many of you know exactly what the maintenance requirements are?
How many of you actually possess a torque wrench? Yes you want to do your own maintenance.
How many of you (including AP's) know how to measure the pistons and cylinders and the use of a bore gauge?

How many of your do 300 hours in five years? Most of you probaly spend more in that time maintaining your car.

I want each of you to call me or e-mail me directly about your concerns and I will address your concerns in a mature and objective manner.

I have to work for my money, I am just so amazed at how much time people have for whining, it's unbelieveble!

To all you BABIES, continue on the forum. I will now ignore the forum and attend to genuine enquiries directed to me. My cell phone number is 083 630 9406, call me.