How reliable is the Jabiru engine

[Wingless Nut]

Cash-strapped as I am (gotta look after the EX-factor and schooling in Canada is not cheap), cost is of primary importance. Then of course I am built like a retired professional tighthead prop, which doen't make choosing the right home-built aerie kit any easier. Here's what I am looking at, in an effort to keep the empty weight as low as possible, yet having sufficient power in front; The Savannah STOL, with the Jabiru 2200 80 horse engine (with the Verner 133M as the alternative). Now numerous people either swear buy the Jab engines, but most tend to swear AT them.

I have heard of Jab's doing 1000 hrs without problems. I have recently heard of one owner who is now onto his 6th engine. A Bantam owner also told me that he is experiencing serious problems after only 50+ hours. The local Jabiru importers and kit suppliers that offer the Jab engine, admit that there were problems, and claim that these have now been sorted out. So, please tell me,..... what's the story!

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Chat direct to the guys in George. Les and Len will address any issues and take you through any queries you may have. Do yourself a favour. If you have not been behind a Jab engine, get behind one. Well worth the short hope from da mountain Bru to FAGGrrrrrrrr to see them and test fly the aeries.

PS
There are a couple (cheaper) options on the Oribi.

[Wingless Nut]

Thanks!

Been there done that! The George people were very adamant that all problems have been sorted. This applies to the 85hp Engine as fitted to factory a/c's & kits. Then on the off the shelf engines (80 hp), which is a previous generation spec, is apparently where the problem lies. They are nice looking uncomplicated and light-weight, which is all good and well, until the valve starts to toi-toi on the piston. I so wish to believe that all is well with them, but as yet I'm not convinced.

The Oribi is great value for money, and I particularly like the HKS option. Gem of an engine. A little pricy for it's output, but very nice and runs on the sniff of a rag. Again with the anticipated payload (read all-up weight), It might be light in the pants when I go to visit my buddy on his gamefarm in the Waterberg. Very high and very hot! Sure here at sea-level it should be quite lekka.

Thanks again for your input.

Happy landings!

[skybound®]

If I remember correctly, there was an investigation by the CAA into the Jabiru a while back. They did the investigation based on claims of certain owner(s). Report at CAA Website

The CAA report that came out, was favourable to Jabiru.

Maybe a case that they may well just be struggling to shake of the some bad publicity. I am sure that other manufacturers probably had same problem, it is just that they may have been around a lot longer so we have forgottent the stories.

You indicate that you have asked around and found some that have had problems with Jab motors. I will bet if you asked the same question to Rotax/Continental/HKS/Hirth owners you will definitely find some that have too had problems.

[Wingless Nut]

Thanks Skybound

You're probably right. Although it's worth mentioning that I have to date heard of a Rotax 912 ul that needed an overhaul of the cylinder heads at about 1200 hrs. The owner then decided to have the 95hp mod done at the same time. I hear what you are saying, and don't get me wrong. What is worrying about the Jab reports are that these breakdowns happen at very low hours. But.....I am sure even Mercedes must have a library full of reported serious engine failures. I've had a look before at the CAA site, particularly the incidents & accidents when it was still regularly updated. In it there were a number of Jabiru references. In their defence I must add that n the majority of cases, incidents were ascribed to pilot error.

[Morph]

Thanks Skybound

In their defence I must add that n the majority of cases, incidents were ascribed to pilot error.

Yup, take the human out of the equation and 98% of sh#t wouldn't happen. All aviation engines go through bad stages. Some of the guys here are testing the Hirth 3Cyl fuel injected motor and swear blind by it, but Hirth's history is not a rosy one. Even good ole overpriced Rotax have had their downs and if you are an idiot you can trash a 503 in 10 hours without looking. I know of a certain 503 in a Bush Baby that seized solid at 10 hours because the pilot calculated a 100 to 1 ratio of premix instead of 50 to 1.

But generally speaking things have got better, my instructor told me of a trip he flew from JHB to DBN and had 6 engine-outs on the way. He didn't elaborate as the various causes but I am sure this was Rotax way back in the beginning.

Personally, I would just be a little wary of using any motor that has a bad rap. Stick to the good ole tried and tested motors and let somebody else be the test pilot.

[Wingless Nut]

That sounds like good sensible advice, but if you are referring to the 912, I'll loose the low weight/ higher useful load advantage, which puts me into a bigger a/c "category" like a Kitfox 7. I really don't wish to go the 2-stroke route either. Sounds awful, are a little too thirsty and as you know has high maintenance costs. Thanks anyway Morpheus, I'll keep that in mind as well.

[FAWGie]

I have a Rotax 912. At about 500 hours I had the high compression (95HP) 912 Extra pistons fitted. Have just done 1000 hours on the engine, it has never missed beat (as long as it had fuel ), and has awesome power

Demon...Is it a big or small upgrade to go from 80hp to the high compression 95hp mod...price wize, that is?

[IFLYHI]

Is it still so that Jabiru uses only Avgas

What will happen down the line when Avgas/ leaded fuel is no longer available

[FAWGie]

Is it still so that Jabiru uses only Avgas

What will happen down the line when Avgas/ leaded fuel is no longer available

Yip.....Jabi still requires AVGAS....
When AVGAS is no longer available, there will be thousands of blik aeries and modern GA aeries that will become static displays....or will have to be modified for unleaded fuel consumption - If that is possible???

[ACE]

Yip.....Jabi still requires AVGAS....
When AVGAS is no longer available, there will be thousands of blik aeries and modern GA aeries that will become static displays....or will have to be modified for unleaded fuel consumption - If that is possible???

This is a very scary scenario - although not affected, I look forward to some input from the gurus (Continental, Lycoming et al).
Otherwise the flying clubs around the country will not be short of "gate guards" with all these aeries mounted on poles next to the entrance.

[C205]

The leaded/unleaded issue has been debated on avcom and the final response was that leaded would remain in Avgas form such as in other countries where leaded is no longer available.
Fortunately I fly a Rattex!

[Morph]

I had a meeting with product managers from BP about a month ago regarding this leaded/unleaded question albeit for motor vehicles. As of January 2006 there will be no more leaded fuel available. This immediately created huge panic amongst the ranks of the biking club I belong to as there are a lot of classic bikes out there that cannot run on unleaded as they need the lead to lubricate the valves (the only reason)

However what everyone doesn't realise is there will still be the two choices at the pump, unleaded and lead replacement fuel, using an alternative(non heavy metal) to lead as the lubrication. This lead replacement fuel will remain on the market as long as there is a requirement for it. After that they will sell and additive to the unleaded fuel to add the lubrication component.

If you are unsure about the viability of the lead-replacement fuel be aware that all BP (what we think is their leaded fuel) 97 is infact this lead-replacement fuel and has been so since 2003 with no side affects.

So, my prediction on AVGAS is that it too will be replaced with a lead-replacement version that will work perfectly.

[Junkie]

Been running quite happily on unleaed in the 582 without any noticibale affect on power and havnt discovered water in the fuel as yet!