Hi swiftprop,
I have been looking at what I could build first time and after a long time settled on the JDT Mini Max Eros. I have just received my first mini kits and JDT are excellent to work with.
Colin.
Beginners homebuild project- which one
Hi Coling/Swiftprop,
Had a look at the MiniMax website and several builders quoted in excess of 1000 hours to build the Mini Max KITS!!!
This seems high for a simple kit especialy as JDT quote 400 hrs assembly of kit, but maybe these guys spend a lot of time deciding what and how to do it.
I like this type of A/C as it is simple cheap.
Low empty weight of about 400lbs
I think plans build only is also an option
Kits are in the region og USD 5,000 or round R40,000 and the flying qualities seem to be superb on very low Hp from Rotax 337 and a 503 version is quoted with a climb rate of 1200ft/min. so at JHB altitude let it be 600-700 and it will still a great performer.
Kind regards
Gunter
Had a look at the MiniMax website and several builders quoted in excess of 1000 hours to build the Mini Max KITS!!!
This seems high for a simple kit especialy as JDT quote 400 hrs assembly of kit, but maybe these guys spend a lot of time deciding what and how to do it.
I like this type of A/C as it is simple cheap.
Low empty weight of about 400lbs
I think plans build only is also an option
Kits are in the region og USD 5,000 or round R40,000 and the flying qualities seem to be superb on very low Hp from Rotax 337 and a 503 version is quoted with a climb rate of 1200ft/min. so at JHB altitude let it be 600-700 and it will still a great performer.
Kind regards
Gunter
Hi swiftprop.
I really wanted to build something that was not going to kill me financially,
could be registered as a microlight (400 lbs should make the limit for single seater), had supplier support & used a 503 engine (the Eros is the only JDT aircraft designed for the 503).
I decided to build with the mini kits which will work out slightly more than ordering the whole kit at once. My plan is to use the JDT tail, rib & wing construction kits and to source the rest locally as shipping is costly (more about that later). John Graber kindly sent me a freight quote on what I wanted to order and then I completed their standard order form and paid by credit card. The freight cost only covered shipping to OR Tambo, I still got my own clearing agent to clear & deliver to me.
I do not have an exact cost estimate yet but I think that it could be flying for between 70K - 80K. So far I have spent app R 12000 on the rib kit, tail kit & plans (delivered to my door). Of that amount a whopping R5000 was freight, clearing fees & VAT. Expensive lesson, nothing you can do about the VAT, but when I order the wing construction kit I might do things differently.
- $898 for the 2 kits & plans
- $30 crating fee
- $326 freight for 23kg
- R1100 VAT
- R1500 clearing agent
Grostek you are correct, don't be fooled by build times. That's one advantage of ordering from JDT, the wood is already cut to the correct width. If you have to select your own wood and cut a lot of 1/4" sticks it's going to take you much longer. I have not cut a single part yet but have realised that not having some of the more luxurious tools, e.g. router will significantly increase the build time. There is one guy who built it in 3 months and still spent 50h per week at work, and there is another who took 1000 hours and said it was easy because of his model building experience
He must have worked from plans only.
Hope that helps.
Colin
I really wanted to build something that was not going to kill me financially,
could be registered as a microlight (400 lbs should make the limit for single seater), had supplier support & used a 503 engine (the Eros is the only JDT aircraft designed for the 503).
I decided to build with the mini kits which will work out slightly more than ordering the whole kit at once. My plan is to use the JDT tail, rib & wing construction kits and to source the rest locally as shipping is costly (more about that later). John Graber kindly sent me a freight quote on what I wanted to order and then I completed their standard order form and paid by credit card. The freight cost only covered shipping to OR Tambo, I still got my own clearing agent to clear & deliver to me.
I do not have an exact cost estimate yet but I think that it could be flying for between 70K - 80K. So far I have spent app R 12000 on the rib kit, tail kit & plans (delivered to my door). Of that amount a whopping R5000 was freight, clearing fees & VAT. Expensive lesson, nothing you can do about the VAT, but when I order the wing construction kit I might do things differently.
- $898 for the 2 kits & plans
- $30 crating fee
- $326 freight for 23kg
- R1100 VAT
- R1500 clearing agent
Grostek you are correct, don't be fooled by build times. That's one advantage of ordering from JDT, the wood is already cut to the correct width. If you have to select your own wood and cut a lot of 1/4" sticks it's going to take you much longer. I have not cut a single part yet but have realised that not having some of the more luxurious tools, e.g. router will significantly increase the build time. There is one guy who built it in 3 months and still spent 50h per week at work, and there is another who took 1000 hours and said it was easy because of his model building experience
He must have worked from plans only.Hope that helps.
Colin
-
skyvan
- Learning to fly
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:08 am
- Location: Durban/Dubai, either way, at the beach :)
I had a set of Vmax plans years ago, very thorough, full of detail.
Seemes to be a very simple plane to build.
There was a guy at FAVV (Peter Bosch) who would source all the saligna you would need, and cut it to size for a fee. I bought the complete lot from him years ago, which I have since sold on to a mate in Cape Town.
But I don't think it would be any easier to build than a VP1 or similar. The -max's attractiveness in the USA is the fact that they are available as a complete kit, and they are classified as ultralights.
Seemes to be a very simple plane to build.
There was a guy at FAVV (Peter Bosch) who would source all the saligna you would need, and cut it to size for a fee. I bought the complete lot from him years ago, which I have since sold on to a mate in Cape Town.
But I don't think it would be any easier to build than a VP1 or similar. The -max's attractiveness in the USA is the fact that they are available as a complete kit, and they are classified as ultralights.
Hi skyvan,
I thought of building the fuselage with local saligna, but I want to avoid extra weight (or maybe I could lose the extra weight myself :D ).
I read somewhere that Placo will be an Aircraft Spruce agent, but I don't know if this will include raw stock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I certainly hope so.
I agree with you on the VP1. If you are going plans only then the VP might be a better choice.
Colin.
I thought of building the fuselage with local saligna, but I want to avoid extra weight (or maybe I could lose the extra weight myself :D ).
I read somewhere that Placo will be an Aircraft Spruce agent, but I don't know if this will include raw stock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I certainly hope so.
I agree with you on the VP1. If you are going plans only then the VP might be a better choice.
Colin.
Hi All,
Building an aircraft is a major undertaking so to make it worthwhile it may pay to sit down and define your mission for this aircraft.
What you need today may not be suitable in 2 or 3 years time when you finish the aircraft. I am assuming scratch build from plans here.
First decide single seat or two seater.
Then decide what material because we all have certain likes and dislikes
regarding the type of materials.
Basically your options will fall into these categories
1.Wood and Fabric.
Materials readily available, simple woodworking tools.Easily repaired after small accidents.
2.Steel tube and Fabric.
Cutting and fitting steeltubing (a lot of filing with round files here to get good fit at joints!!!) Cost of welding
Will posibly have wooden wings. Repairs after accidents take time and require more skill (than wooden types)and usually welding new pipes in.
3.Composite, (meaning foam and glass).I cant comment as I have never been involved in the construction of this type.
4.All metal.
ie Sheet Aluminium Cut to size debur along cut edges. mate up with adjacent part, drill holes, take apart and deburr all holes from both sides, posibly treat surface with alodine as barrier for corosion protection then Primer the parts. Finally when all parts for a component have had the above treatment then it can all be put together with clecoes and then rivited. Either solid rivits or pull rivits. Material readily available from importers. Repairs are posible after accidents. drill out rivits and remove damaged parts.(after large mishaps the A/C may be a write off)
Metal may sound like a right royal pain but it actually is quite fast when you get in the groove so to speak, and progress can be quite fast.
Metal aircraft also tend to be lighter than the other types so performance is possibly better.
Metal fabrication should also be faster because you can work on it all year and you are not temperature dependend waiting for glues and epoxies to dry or set in ideal warm temperatures.
As a rough rule a two seater will cost roughly double what a single seater will cost.
Finally resale value is almost always higher for metal aircraft because there is a perception that metal is "stronger"
So my personal project would be a Zenith CH 601 but that is only my opinion.
It does not matter what you choose to build, it is your choice and you should feel comfortable with your choice.
When scratch building try to do a part every day and soon you will have a kit (at a big discount nogal) that now needs to be assembled into an aircraft.
At the end of the day when the project is completed you will have learned new skills and the sense of pride and accomplishment which can be carried forward into other areas of your life.
Hope this is some some use to someone.
Kind regards,
Gunter Rostek.
Building an aircraft is a major undertaking so to make it worthwhile it may pay to sit down and define your mission for this aircraft.
What you need today may not be suitable in 2 or 3 years time when you finish the aircraft. I am assuming scratch build from plans here.
First decide single seat or two seater.
Then decide what material because we all have certain likes and dislikes
regarding the type of materials.
Basically your options will fall into these categories
1.Wood and Fabric.
Materials readily available, simple woodworking tools.Easily repaired after small accidents.
2.Steel tube and Fabric.
Cutting and fitting steeltubing (a lot of filing with round files here to get good fit at joints!!!) Cost of welding
Will posibly have wooden wings. Repairs after accidents take time and require more skill (than wooden types)and usually welding new pipes in.
3.Composite, (meaning foam and glass).I cant comment as I have never been involved in the construction of this type.
4.All metal.
ie Sheet Aluminium Cut to size debur along cut edges. mate up with adjacent part, drill holes, take apart and deburr all holes from both sides, posibly treat surface with alodine as barrier for corosion protection then Primer the parts. Finally when all parts for a component have had the above treatment then it can all be put together with clecoes and then rivited. Either solid rivits or pull rivits. Material readily available from importers. Repairs are posible after accidents. drill out rivits and remove damaged parts.(after large mishaps the A/C may be a write off)
Metal may sound like a right royal pain but it actually is quite fast when you get in the groove so to speak, and progress can be quite fast.
Metal aircraft also tend to be lighter than the other types so performance is possibly better.
Metal fabrication should also be faster because you can work on it all year and you are not temperature dependend waiting for glues and epoxies to dry or set in ideal warm temperatures.
As a rough rule a two seater will cost roughly double what a single seater will cost.
Finally resale value is almost always higher for metal aircraft because there is a perception that metal is "stronger"
So my personal project would be a Zenith CH 601 but that is only my opinion.
It does not matter what you choose to build, it is your choice and you should feel comfortable with your choice.
When scratch building try to do a part every day and soon you will have a kit (at a big discount nogal) that now needs to be assembled into an aircraft.
At the end of the day when the project is completed you will have learned new skills and the sense of pride and accomplishment which can be carried forward into other areas of your life.
Hope this is some some use to someone.
Kind regards,
Gunter Rostek.
Hi coling,
Placo will order anything you want from Aircraft Spruce. They have regular weekly deliveries and orders take about 2 weeks to execute. They add a fixed percentage to cover freight and margin. I have found that you can take the Aircraft Spruce prices in US$ and multiply by about 10 to convert to Rands to give the delivered cost. Not bad! I tried to order direct from Aircraft Spruce a while ago and found that goods costing $104 would cost $274 extra for delivery!!
Placo will order anything you want from Aircraft Spruce. They have regular weekly deliveries and orders take about 2 weeks to execute. They add a fixed percentage to cover freight and margin. I have found that you can take the Aircraft Spruce prices in US$ and multiply by about 10 to convert to Rands to give the delivered cost. Not bad! I tried to order direct from Aircraft Spruce a while ago and found that goods costing $104 would cost $274 extra for delivery!!
Hi All,
Here are some links to sites for plans build aircraft
Have fun reading :D
Kind regards
Gunter
http://www.zenithair.com/before-you-buy.html
http://www.plansdelivery.com/alberto4.htm
http://geocities.com/fredplane/plans.htm
http://www.evansair.com/
http://www.flyhummel.com/hummel_bird.htm
http://www.flyhummel.com/ca-2.htm
http://www.homebuilt.org/
http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/index.html
http://www.ultralightmarket.com/results ... &Gruppe=11
http://www.ultraligero.net/Sitios/Plano ... igeros.htm
Here are some links to sites for plans build aircraft
Have fun reading :D
Kind regards
Gunter
http://www.zenithair.com/before-you-buy.html
http://www.plansdelivery.com/alberto4.htm
http://geocities.com/fredplane/plans.htm
http://www.evansair.com/
http://www.flyhummel.com/hummel_bird.htm
http://www.flyhummel.com/ca-2.htm
http://www.homebuilt.org/
http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/index.html
http://www.ultralightmarket.com/results ... &Gruppe=11
http://www.ultraligero.net/Sitios/Plano ... igeros.htm
Hi Swiftprop,
The Raven from Carl Babst is the most under rated kit in South Africa.
The problem is that many people are put off by the Volla engine that Carl recommends, but calling an engine from Great Plains for example is very misleading because this is a purpose build aircraft motor, with so many changes and new components that it would be able to be fitted to a beetle.
So costs go up as people search for the ideal motor, at a low cost of course.
A properly engineered VW installation with proper cooling can be very reliable. BUT note I said "properly engineered" and this is where individual owners/builders are experimenters and of course carry the cost of the development.
Just read Bennie Vosters Saga with his Bushbaby with VW.
If I had to build a Raven I would try to put in a Jabiru 6 cyl 120 HP
Money allowing of course. Although the 2200 Jabi would also be fine. Rotax 912 80 Hp also good (many $$$$$)
The Cubby is a factory build aircraft and only available at a build up cost.
If you want to build such an aircraft, Contact
http://www.preceptoraircraft.com/
they will sell you a set of plans.
Sounds as if you are getting itchy hands swiftprop and want to put them to work
Kind regards,
Gunter.
The Raven from Carl Babst is the most under rated kit in South Africa.
The problem is that many people are put off by the Volla engine that Carl recommends, but calling an engine from Great Plains for example is very misleading because this is a purpose build aircraft motor, with so many changes and new components that it would be able to be fitted to a beetle.
So costs go up as people search for the ideal motor, at a low cost of course.
A properly engineered VW installation with proper cooling can be very reliable. BUT note I said "properly engineered" and this is where individual owners/builders are experimenters and of course carry the cost of the development.
Just read Bennie Vosters Saga with his Bushbaby with VW.
If I had to build a Raven I would try to put in a Jabiru 6 cyl 120 HP
Money allowing of course. Although the 2200 Jabi would also be fine. Rotax 912 80 Hp also good (many $$$$$)The Cubby is a factory build aircraft and only available at a build up cost.
If you want to build such an aircraft, Contact
http://www.preceptoraircraft.com/
they will sell you a set of plans.
Sounds as if you are getting itchy hands swiftprop and want to put them to work
Kind regards,
Gunter.
-
Bennie Vorster
- Toooooo Thousand
- Posts: 2111
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:57 pm
- Location: Newcastle
- Contact:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-ul.html
Zodiac UL 601
Build form a plan or a kit when fedup wasting your time, buy the rest of the kit and compleate. Including in buying is a traning corse to build that you can attend first.
Have Fun
Zodiac UL 601
Build form a plan or a kit when fedup wasting your time, buy the rest of the kit and compleate. Including in buying is a traning corse to build that you can attend first.
Have Fun
Growing old is far more dangerous than flying !!!
Bennie Vorster
083 277 5110
Bennie Vorster
083 277 5110
Hi swiftprop,
Found this a while ago on Avcom saved it on word and can not find it again on Avcom.
But this is what I saved
[b]As a keen long-time flier of Zenair Zodiacs, I was pleasantly surprised to find out about a local offer of Zodiac Kits.
Rob Hayes from Natal (Isithebe airfield) is offering complete kits (unbuilt)for less than R32000. He is also offering to run building courses mainly for Natal based builders.
Rob can be contacetd on zero eight two 921 four four nine seven or zero three two 485 three four five six. [/b]
This was posted by "airscrewed"
Just one thing this is not a kit of components, it is a material kit sheets of aluminium etc you must cut and bend. There is a lot more included in the 32grand all needed to get a finished airframe on wheels minus engine
Hope this helps you
Kind regards
Gunter Rostek
Found this a while ago on Avcom saved it on word and can not find it again on Avcom.
But this is what I saved
[b]As a keen long-time flier of Zenair Zodiacs, I was pleasantly surprised to find out about a local offer of Zodiac Kits.
Rob Hayes from Natal (Isithebe airfield) is offering complete kits (unbuilt)for less than R32000. He is also offering to run building courses mainly for Natal based builders.
Rob can be contacetd on zero eight two 921 four four nine seven or zero three two 485 three four five six. [/b]
This was posted by "airscrewed"
Just one thing this is not a kit of components, it is a material kit sheets of aluminium etc you must cut and bend. There is a lot more included in the 32grand all needed to get a finished airframe on wheels minus engine
Hope this helps you
Kind regards
Gunter Rostek
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