Xenon Gyro

[emil]

Emil, nobody wants to make any assumptions, hence the questions. :D And for what it's worth I completely agree with your recomendation about going for a demo ride. But when there have been previosuly reported "incidents" and subsequent modifications, do you not feel that it's reasonable to ask what what exactly these were before climbing into the aircraft?

Trust me, I'm looking for all the reasons to buy a Xenon - not the other way around! As a neutral, hopefully unbiased, potential customer with aboslutely no vested commercial interest, I can only say that the overly defensive and somewhat evasive responses I'm reading is placing a bigger question mark for me about buying the Xenon than the Xenon itself!!!

let me just make sure you understand why i am like this
Firstly i do not have any thing to do with the Xenon or micro flight aviation.
Secondly i do not understand why every one always has 101 things to say about other people's products if they have not even been in it yet hence the "defensive and somewhat evasive responses"

i have flown in the Xenon and i think it is by far the best gyro in the SA market. Only because i think so.... for a few reasons but i can that is my opinion...

as a pilot i will not fly in ANY thing that i don’t think is safe or will cause me my life because some one that is not qualified worked on it.

And I will get into the xenon any time of the day…as for the res where the only protection around you is a thin fiberglass body. I will think twice !!

[t-bird]

“1. nee ek het nie n GPL nie ..”
I rest my case!!!

“2. dink jy regtig hulle sal n gyro adverteer en aan laat werk as dit nie deur die regte mense gedoen word nie ?”

Wie is die regte mense en wat is hulle kwalifikasies ,jy praat in sirkels ???

“4. so gepraat van DENISTY ALTITUDE” Help nie jy kan dit bereken en kry nog die sogenoemde downdrafts nie.


“so jy is besig om dit aftekraak....”

Not me, Jean Pierre du Ponsel went to France to test fly the Xenon.
He had one hell of a go at one of the other Gyro’s.
I assume he is a representative of the Xenon as Xenon has quoted him in the brosure.This is a bashing, and this is from a guy with a vested interest in Gyro company.

From the other forum:
“If every owner thinks that someone in South-Africa is going to revive the machine, I cannot see this happening soon. In RSA, they will have to start with cleaning the mess left by their very poor after sales service.
2nd problem, technical knowledge. Everything is done by trial and error without any logic.
3rd problem, one instructor-builder-adjuster... badly overstressed. Will not accept anyone else to share the x market and customer base, in the end to help the stranded owners, because he sees it as a business threat. “

I am just wondering if you could apply his points to the Xenon ?

If the Xenon is so great , why is Braam training students on a Magni ???

Good post Learjet

[emil]

“1. nee ek het nie n GPL nie ..”
I rest my case!!!

“2. dink jy regtig hulle sal n gyro adverteer en aan laat werk as dit nie deur die regte mense gedoen word nie ?”

Wie is die regte mense en wat is hulle kwalifikasies ,jy praat in sirkels ???

“4. so gepraat van DENISTY ALTITUDE” Help nie jy kan dit bereken en kry nog die sogenoemde downdrafts nie.


“so jy is besig om dit aftekraak....”

Not me, Jean Pierre du Ponsel went to France to test fly the Xenon.
He had one hell of a go at one of the other Gyro’s.
I assume he is a representative of the Xenon as Xenon has quoted him in the brosure.This is a bashing, and this is from a guy with a vested interest in Gyro company.

From the other forum:
“If every owner thinks that someone in South-Africa is going to revive the machine, I cannot see this happening soon. In RSA, they will have to start with cleaning the mess left by their very poor after sales service.
2nd problem, technical knowledge. Everything is done by trial and error without any logic.
3rd problem, one instructor-builder-adjuster... badly overstressed. Will not accept anyone else to share the x market and customer base, in the end to help the stranded owners, because he sees it as a business threat. “

I am just wondering if you could apply his points to the Xenon ?

If the Xenon is so great , why is Braam training students on a Magni ???

Good post Learjet

siende jy persoonlik raak
1. ek het n MPL PPL en HPL.... wat het jy....

2. ek sien jy het nie punt 4 geantwoord nie so jy het nie n idee hoe werk mens density altitude uit nie ... i rest my case.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Popcorn, coke , couch......

[emil]

Popcorn, coke , couch......

Rv i am going to join you ..i have said what i wanted...

funny that the rest has alot to say about some thing they havent even flown in yet...maybe they should read the start of this topic about some one that has flown in the Xenon

[t-bird]

Emil

Nothing personal.

It would not make a difference if you had an ATPL with 30 000 hours and zero PIC Gyro hours.

I have the necessary Gyro licenses and hours on different types of Gyros. Condor who started the post was still in training at FABB when I had a quite a few hours on type.

I don’t have to prove Density altitude to you, you are side tracking?

Start facing the questions and stop complaining!!

Wie is die regte mense en wat is hulle kwalifikasies ,jy praat in sirkels ???
Who is the right people and what are their Qualifications?

WHY DO XENON REPERESENTATIVES BASH OTHER GYROS?

If the Xenon is so great, why is Braam training students on a Magni ???

[emil]

Emil

Nothing personal.

It would not make a difference if you had an ATPL with 30 000 hours and zero PIC Gyro hours.

I have the necessary Gyro licenses and hours on different types of Gyros. Condor who started the post was still in training at FABB when I had a quite a few hours on type.

I don’t have to prove Density altitude to you, you are side tracking?

Start facing the questions and stop complaining!!

Wie is die regte mense en wat is hulle kwalifikasies ,jy praat in sirkels ???
Who is the right people and what are their Qualifications?

WHY DO XENON REPERESENTATIVES BASH OTHER GYROS?

If the Xenon is so great, why is Braam training students on a Magni ???

"Who is the right people and what are their Qualifications?"
why do you not ask this question to wightshift as he is the owner of microflight aviation. as i said to learjet i do not have any thing to do with microflight aviation


If the Xenon is so great, why is Braam training students on a Magni ???[/

if you do not have your own gyro they will never send you solo on the school gyro... secondly i guess it was/ is becouse the Xenon was in a testing phase like any new type in SA should be to sort out all minor problems...and for just in case you DID NOT KNOW all new TYPES on the CAA register MUST fly 40 hours of testing flights.

WHY DO XENON REPERESENTATIVES BASH OTHER GYROS?
how on earth do you want me to answer a question about what some one else said ????

I don’t have to prove Density altitude to you, you are side tracking?

you mentiond this....(as a problem and you dont even know what it is)... not me....as for my GPL... i have hours sitting infront of many gyros like i said...why i never completed my GPL and only stayed a student...i preferd flying helis...and other planes....personal choice

[t-bird]

Can’t remember the exact def of density altitude but hear goes.

Air density is affected by Temperature, pressure and moisture.

QNH high on a cold day with moisture climb like a homesick angel.
QNH low on a hot day with less moisture, be careful of the downdrafts.

It gives you an estimate of your effective altitude due to above effect probably measured against Standard International pressure ,moisture and temperature

I went to Kloppenheim a few times this year altitude 6053 feet
Temperature was 35 degrees.
Altimetere was 1010 hpa
Dew point -2 degrees.
Desitty altitude was +- 9780 feet.

Took off with the Ela full fuel and two big guys with a slight tail wind as the runway is downhill.

No problems and we continued climbing @ 600 feet a minute.

[Coyote]

From what I hear Johan Stemmet was involved in a similar type of accident (loss of lift turning downwind). I dont know him but he has a good reputation as a high time competent pilot. Are Magnis now kak because of it???

[Coyote]

The other day some guy asks me what I fly so I tell him a Sycamore - he replies that the best thing that I can do is put a match to it. If he wasnt such a wimpy dude I would have decked him. I come from the microlight fraternity and there the guys support each other. I fly a Sycamore and am more than happy with my plane but flew in the Zenon the other day and WHAT AN AIRCRAFT - I hope you guys rock the industry Braam.

[Coyote]

Braam trains on the Magni because thats what he has, now that the Zenon is ready I am under the impression that there will be training offered on it also. I would desperately like to see a gyro fraternity that supports each other.Flying is awesome its the bulls£%t that ruins it.

[t-bird]

Eagle 1

“Flying is awesome its the bulls£%t that ruins it.”
I agree with you and that is why the Xenon is taking some much flack.

Not once have I said a bad thing about it. But I have asked some questions on statements that were made.

To quote Learjet “I can only say that the overly defensive and somewhat evasive responses I'm reading is placing a bigger question mark for me about buying the Xenon than the Xenon itself!!!”

[Dreamer]

You okes should all sell those gyrochopters and buy an aquilla....
...Hope Braam sells whole pile of them Xenon,s........dont know squat about a gyro but the xenon sure looks good.......

[The Agent]

Don't you okes work, gee I was out for the day and look what has happened.

[Gyronaut]

I have been watching this thread with interest...

I want to say to T bird that I never intended to insinuate that he was bashing anything. I do, however, agree with everything he has said.

I say again that I am a confirmed gyronaut but am also gatvol of all the bullshit that is spoken about them.

I have a question for Emil; How many hours and on what Sycamore do you have PIC hours?

I for one am sick and tired of tyre-kickers that walk up to my machine and talk the biggest load of kak I have ever heard because they are fed this bullshit by the manufacturers of other machines. All they are doing is showing their ignorance and hence dont even justify anymore discussion here.

I am very concerned that people hide their 'mishaps' and try to ascribe it to anything except the machine. Highlight the weeknesses and fix the problems and Gyro's in general will gain a far better reputation than they have right now.

Each machine has its benefits and its disadvantages and one has to weigh those against cost/support/safety and fit for purpose.

I welcome another enclosed Gyro to the market because until now it has been only the RAF and the Sycamore that have been available in this country. Now we can really start to compare apples with apples! Bring it on! I look forward to seeing a Xenon in Cape Town.

Happy and safe flying!