Xenon Gyro

[The Agent]

Ok you can say all you want but this machine seems to be well sorted out for SA conditions.

It was flying this morning at Rhino with 2 moer of a big guys on board, sorry will get that shot next time.

[Boet]

I am not particularly fond of gyros, BUT if I ever go for a flip in one, it would be this one. I luf the look. By why is it so hellishly expensive??

[The Agent]

Nou hier is n ding as jy nou weer by jou maats kom kuier hier naby onse dam dan bel of PM my vroegtydig en ek sal reel ok.

[emil]

Hi t-bird

Non of the Xenon's were involved in an accident. Let me explain what happend:

The Xenon has two integrated fuel tanks. One of these tanks were leaking/seaping fuel into the composite structure of the of the body as it was not sealed properly. This resulted in the weakening of the material which in turn led to the attachment point of the one side of the undercarriage breaking.

We have been working very close with Raphael and the factory to resolve problems such as these. You will notice if you visit the Xenon website that the tanks have since been changed in order to prevent this from happening again. They are now completely removeable.

Safe flying

altyd beter om die waarheid tepraat.

what happend to the Xenon that day would have happend to any other gyro/aircraft a gyro stays an aircraft and there are limits that apllies to that..... it stil has a wing and lift...and stil has to use the head wind.....

[t-bird]

Mr Agent

You said “but this machine seems to be well sorted out for SA conditions”

Who sorted this gyro out? Do the guys have the necessary qualifications to do the work?

Nothing to do with SA conditions if a leaking fuel tank destroys your airframe.

What was the problem with the SA conditions?

I hope not density altitude, because it would be very early to say that it is sorted out in the winter.

Wait for 37 degrees and test it again.

[emil]

Mr Agent

You said “but this machine seems to be well sorted out for SA conditions”

Who sorted this gyro out? Do the guys have the necessary qualifications to do the work?

Nothing to do with SA conditions if a leaking fuel tank destroys your airframe.

What was the problem with the SA conditions?

I hope not density altitude, because it would be very early to say that it is sorted out in the winter.

Wait for 37 degrees and test it again.

hi daar Callie

kom ek antword jou sommer..

daar is NIKS fout met die Xenon nie.. die ongeluk wat daar was , was n fout wat iemand gemaak het en dit as al... die Xenon se perfomance is net so goed indien nie beter as jou Magni nie...y is getoets en goed getoets...

ek kan nie dink dat erns op een van die forums daar altyd een of ander slim $%#!$% moet wees wat ALTYD ander mense se produkte afkraak nie....

gaan vrae jou self die vraag..voor jy daai Magni gekoop het ....het jy na al die toets vlugte gaan kyk.. het jy met die test pilots gaan praat...en gehoor wat een gaan...

DAAR IS NIKS FOUT MET DIE XENON nie

ek het self al die Magnie / Ela / MT / sycamore / en een van die heel eerste gyros in SA gevlieg toe baie van julle nog gedroom het oor Gyro en die Xenon staan bo dan ander uit...

[t-bird]

Hi Emil

Vlieg nie meer ‘n Magni nie nie maar wel ‘n ELA.

Nie een van my vrae het ek die produk afgekraak nie. Die ongelukke was op die forum.

Ek een van die eerste persone wat met Conrad in verbinding getree het oor die Xenon.

Ek het ‘n mooi brosure gekry met al die toetse wat hulle oorsee gedoen het. Toets 10& 11 Mei 2006 gedoen.

Volgens sy e-pos sal die Xenon net so beskikbaar wees June 2006. Geen veranderinge is nodig nie want dit is klaar ontwerp en getoets in Frankryk.

Nou word daar gesê dat daar verandering plaaslik aangebring is !! Is dit goedgekeur deur die ontwerpers en wie het dit gedoen.

Ek hoef nie met die Magni test pilots gepraat het nie wat daar was omtrent 80 in die land met 4 trips om Suid Afrika 3 na Namibia en 1 na Botswana , Zimbabwe , Malawi, Mosambiek en terug. HET DIE XENON ENIGE VAN HIERDIE ROETES GEDOEN.

HOEKOM AS DAAR N ONGELUK WAS WORD DIT ONTKEN. MY EERSTE REAKSIE SAL WEES DAT DAAR N PROBLEEM MET DIE GYRO IS ANDER IS DIT PILOT ERROR

“ek het self al die Magnie / Ela / MT / sycamore / en een van die heel eerste gyros in SA gevlieg toe baie van julle nog gedroom het oor Gyro en die Xenon staan bo dan ander uit...”

WANNEER HET JY ‘N GPL GEKRY ? Want 6 maande terug het jy nog nie een gehad nie

AANGESIEN JY DIE VRAE ANTWOORD DIE VOLGENDE IS NOG ONBEANTWOORD

“Who sorted this gyro out? Do the guys have the necessary qualifications to do the work?”

[Cloud Warrior]

Gripping stuff!

[emil]

1. nee ek het nie n GPL nie .. ek het nie gese ek het ALLEEN gevlieg nie..maar ek het baie ure in gyros.... waar ek self gevlieg het.... soos ek se dit sluit in die Xenon Magni Ela MT en sycamore.. ( en en van die eerstes wat ek saam met James en Dick Jacobs gevlieg.)..en as jy my vlieg vermoe onderskat ...sal ek dit enige dag vir jou bewys

2. dink jy regtig hulle sal n gyro adverteer en aan laat werk as dit nie deur die regte mense gedoen word nie ?

3. die ongeluk was pilot error soos wat ek an baie van julle en selfs jy ook nog gaan maak..dit is en van daai goed wat gaan gebeur want ons almal is net mense...

4. so gepraat van DENISTY ALTITUDE...weet jy ooit wat dit is WEET jy OIET hoe werk mens dit uit..... indine nie...hoekom vrae jy ?

[t-bird]

There is more to come.

Just received an e-mail pointing to the fact that one of the people that went overseas for the testing of the Xenon had one hell of a Gyro bashing on a rotary forum. I will try and find it.

[emil]

There is more to come.

Just received an e-mail pointing to the fact that one of the people that went overseas for the testing of the Xenon had one hell of a Gyro bashing on a rotary forum. I will try and find it.

so jy is besig om dit aftekraak....

Maybe a case of jealousy makes you nasty

laat iemand jou ELA side by side maak en hoe toemaak dan kom praat jy weer

[emil]

There is more to come.

Just received an e-mail pointing to the fact that one of the people that went overseas for the testing of the Xenon had one hell of a Gyro bashing on a rotary forum. I will try and find it.

miskine moet jy al die K@K wat jy hier praat vir al die mense ook gaan se
http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&q= ... o%22&meta=

[Learjet]

I VERY much like the look of the new Xenon :D

But like any aircraft, its always a bit of a challenge to see through the marketing smoke and mirrors and get down to the hard facts. I guess that's why actual flying performance over time becomes the "proof of the pudding". Say what you like but there's no doubt that as the years go by and the the aircraft roll off the production line (and keep flying!) it becomes easier and easier for the likes of Magni & Ela etc to sell their gyros. Simply put, they have developed a good safety track record and reputation. They've "walked the walk" and right now Xenon is just "talking the talk".

And in the Xenon's case there appears to be a little too much smoke wafting around. "Down-draught accident" versus "Hard landing", design rights ownership squabbles and one or two reported "mishaps" which seem to be just a little too glibly explained away for my own peace of mind. And when people start making statements like

ek het self al die Magnie / Ela / MT / sycamore / en een van die heel eerste gyros in SA gevlieg

and it turns out that this statement is more than just a little misleading...this does little to bolster faith when sincere questions are being raised.

Now please don't take this as "Xenon bashing" - until such time as the Xenon has proved itself in the air, prospective buyers who are interested in the Xenon have little option but to pose questions to the manufacturer, and anything less than straightforward and honest answers will do nothing to inspire (interim) confidence in this aircraft. Raphael's reponse to the US Xenon crash was simply dismissed as being "an early version" and that the Hirth engine gave "lots of trouble" and the owner had built the kit and decided to "modify lots of things...mainly the control system" was vague to to say the least. So what was the actual cause of the US accident? Raphael neglected to say...

Don't get me wrong. I think we all want the Xenon to succeed. It's a marvellous looking gyro and another safe and stable gyro will only benefit sport gyro flying as a whole. But lets also keep playing the ball and not the man - and some forthright discussion and answers from the manufacturer about these alleged "incidents", their causes and subsequent modifications will do more to foster our trust in the manufacturer and his product than all the marketing smoke and mirror sooth-saying that's taking place.

Play it straight, and if the Xenon stands the test of time I (and I'm sure a lot of others) will certainly be saving up the pennies for one.

[emil]

I VERY much like the look of the new Xenon :D

But like any aircraft, its always a bit of a challenge to see through the marketing smoke and mirrors and get down to the hard facts. I guess that's why actual flying performance over time becomes the "proof of the pudding". Say what you like but there's no doubt that as the years go by and the the aircraft roll off the production line (and keep flying!) it becomes easier and easier for the likes of Magni & Ela etc to sell their gyros. Simply put, they have developed a good safety track record and reputation. They've "walked the walk" and right now Xenon is just "talking the talk".

And in the Xenon's case there appears to be a little too much smoke wafting around. "Down-draught accident" versus "Hard landing", design rights ownership squabbles and one or two reported "mishaps" which seem to be just a little too glibly explained away for my own peace of mind. And when people start making statements like

ek het self al die Magnie / Ela / MT / sycamore / en een van die heel eerste gyros in SA gevlieg

and it turns out that this statement is more than just a little misleading...this does little to bolster faith when sincere questions are being raised.

Now please don't take this as "Xenon bashing" - until such time as the Xenon has proved itself in the air, prospective buyers who are interested in the Xenon have little option but to pose questions to the manufacturer, and anything less than straightforward and honest answers will do nothing to inspire (interim) confidence in this aircraft. Raphael's reponse to the US Xenon crash was simply dismissed as being "an early version" and that the Hirth engine gave "lots of trouble" and the owner had built the kit and decided to "modify lots of things...mainly the control system" was vague to to say the least. So what was the actual cause of the US accident? Raphael neglected to say...

Don't get me wrong. I think we all want the Xenon to succeed. It's a marvellous looking gyro and another safe and stable gyro will only benefit sport gyro flying as a whole. But lets also keep playing the ball and not the man - and some forthright discussion and answers from the manufacturer about these alleged "incidents", their causes and subsequent modifications will do more to foster our trust in the manufacturer and his product than all the marketing smoke and mirror sooth-saying that's taking place.

Play it straight, and if the Xenon stands the test of time I (and I'm sure a lot of others) will certainly be saving up the pennies for one.

i am not even going to answer to this

luckily every one know Assumptions is the mother of all @$@!$.
and you can make your own Assumptions
the best would be to make an appointment with braam and go fly the Xenon...insted of making Assumptions

[Learjet]

Emil, nobody wants to make any assumptions, hence the questions. :D And for what it's worth I completely agree with your recomendation about going for a demo ride. But when there have been previously reported "incidents" and subsequent modifications, do you not feel that it's reasonable to ask what exactly these were before climbing into the aircraft?

Trust me, I'm looking for all the reasons to buy a Xenon - not the other way around! As a neutral, hopefully unbiased, potential customer with absolutely no vested commercial interest, I can only say that the overly defensive and somewhat evasive responses I'm reading is placing a bigger question mark for me about buying the Xenon than the Xenon itself!!!