Training time: 3 axis MPL vs PPL

[Thunderboy]

Talking 3 axis mcrolights here and training time vs that of conventional type PPL e.g. Cessna

Not sure if is specific to Thunderbirds specifically, which is what I trained on, but all those at the school that I trained at and who started from scratch e.g. no previous flying time, qualfied at over 50 hrs with the exception of 1 who was in the early 40hrs

The problem or delay in training seems to come with the landings.

I spoke to a PPL converting to microlight who was battling with his landings who said that in a cessna one relied on settings -ie you knew you needed to be at x height at x distance from the field dropping at x amount of ft per min at x rpm. A microlight did not work the same way and needed more input from the pilot, especially with cross winds, variants in weather etc. He had no problems on the Cessna but was struggling with the T-Bird

So my question then is:
Is a microlight more difficult to train on then a conventional PPL type a/c ? or is it just the Thunderbird that is a difficult type of a/c to train on?

Constructive comments would be apreciated.

[Dre'man]

I did about 8 hours PPl in C172 and Piper 140, I think they are alot more stable due to weight and sluggish on controls compared to ML. Over and above that 90% of the time you are flying in to airports with huge runways so a couple of meters left or right or if you use 100m extra runway there is no consequence.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

The weight make a huge difference. Lighter is more difficult in the wind.

The norm is around 50hrs for PPL as well and very few make it before the 50hr mark.

PS
Strange as due to less traffic and smaller patterns you should be getting plnety more landings in with the Blunder Turd in same no of hrs?

[Quentin Ferreira]

When u want to go over from a mpl to ppl
can you do a conversion or do you have to start from scratch....??

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Under correction I think you get 25hr credit, so need to do another 15. Radio License and most subjects are the same...

[Thunderboy]

When u want to go over from a mpl to ppl
can you do a conversion or do you have to start from scratch....??

You have to do the entire ppl course - if you trained at a good school the theory part should be pretty close with the exception maybe to nav. As far as the practical goes if you are 3 axis it will be pretty close and their are some microlights such as the Thunderbird, Bushbaby, Cheetah that you can do a PPL in. You can get 15 hrs of credit meaning that you only need do 25hrs of ppl training.


RV our circuit touch and go takes about 5 mins, but if you say the average for ppl is over 50 hrs then it makes sense that ours also takes over 50 if starting from scratch. As you said I think a lot has to do with weight lighter is more difficult.
I qualified at over 50

[Thunderboy]

Oops see Rv got in just before me not sure then if it's 25 you need or 15 you need, can anyone clear it up

[Mogas]

Also understand you get 25 mpl hours credit towards ppl.

[Thunderboy]

I think you right I remember now - You can claim 50% of hours to a maximum of 50 hrs, meaning you would need at least 50 hrs to be able to get the 25 hrs credit,

Let us know which is easier Quentin

[RV4ker (RIP)]

ThunderB
No shame in 50hrs. It all relative. I have only been in Thuderbird for 15mis and it was very difficult for me with Blik background to control in turbulent windy conditions.

Big consideration many do not take into account is that most ML training is part time and sporadic. Few I have come across take 3 weeks off anf fly every day. It more an as and when Money/Time/Family etc allows and thus there is a certain amount of re-training/recapping at the begining of each session to get back into the swing of things. Many PPL's types these days are flying every day (even the part timers fly a couple times a week) and thus the learning curve is much steeper, but they tend to retain more and recap time is less...

I did my PPL in 46hrs over 18 months (only 12 hrs in last 8 months before test due to lack of cash flow, so I think I did 4 separate test prep sessions before I finally managed the test).... That just the way it goes... Aced the test prep's and ham fisted my way through the test... Pressure of flying with Airline training capt (they know all the tricks) blew me away. I would say if he did not think so highly of the instructor he would have failed me... Never looked back and unlike Matric no one ever asks how long it took to solo or get license... You are judged on your last flight/landing.

PS
I did my night rating in Cherokee 180 and it has a bullet proof U/C. You can fly it into the ground and it will sit. When flying at night you loose depth perception and tend to flare too late... I flew that aerie into FAGC more than 1ce and instructor just let me. It is uncomfotable but they were designed to be abused and I have not seen main U/C collape on Cherokee. On other hand many ML's have spring steel/bungi ("spingy") U/C and bounce like hell when you "fly them down into the ground"... This may also be a factor which takes some doing. A "safe" PPL may not be so safe in ML. They require a delicate touch and some instructors I have spoken to believe that the ML types (because they are so light) are more difficult to learn to fly WELL as they react (often violently) to small changes in environment and thus are more difficult to fly accurately...

[Quentin Ferreira]

Ok Thank you everyone for your help on the hours ext......
What about the cost factour??? Still about R30000????

Quentin Ferreira
ZU-ATP
Newcastle

[Thunderboy]

Ok Thank you everyone for your help on the hours ext......
What about the cost factour??? Still about R30000????

Quentin Ferreira
ZU-ATP
Newcastle

should be less if you converting from mpl to ppl - if you take 15 hrs at R800 (you can get it for less at Rand but not sure of NC) that gives you R12k but if you starting from scratch I would budget on at least R30k

[RV4ker (RIP)]

15hrs @ R800ish + 15% sundries should do it. I would work on R15K if all your paperwork is up to scratch and you are current. Some schools WILL make you do unnecessary hrs. Be careful out there

Chat to your instructor before the time and make sure you know what the requirements are before you start and get feedback on how you are progressing. I have heard of some PPL pupes who have not solo'd by 50hrs and think that is OK...

[Quentin Ferreira]

Sounds good!! thank you for the help.....

Quentin Ferreira
ZU-ATP
Newcastle

[Morph]

Starting point is the ground school must be PPL standard. If you did not then you would have to redo this and rewrite the exams

The radio licence remains valid.

Your flight medical is now a Class 2 instead of a Class 4. Now instead of a test every 5 yrs <40Yrs and every 3 years >40yrs it is now 2yrs < 40yrs and 1 yr > 40yrs

Then the minimum legal requirement would be
1. Type conversion to different aircraft, i.e. a Cessna and all it's additional controls. I would do this in a Cheetah, Bush Baby or Jabi that is rated for PPL.
2. 15 hours solo time on this aircraft
3. A long cross country including diversions etc
4. Checkout ride and flight test.

Additional skills that have to be learned are the spins, wing overs, engine management etc that we are not used to.