Junkie's Accident - a debate regarding claims and insurance

[K7]

It appears that the topic regarding claims against Jukie's estate are valid, contradictory to the fact it was denied on this foroum.

The basis of the claim is R100,000.00 for negligence and R26,000.00 for excess insurance.

Is there a body on this foroum who may offer an opinion on;
1. Neglegence, how may this be proved? In this case of Junkies
accident, and much has been written about it.
2. Excess, is it not part of a flying scool to ensure that this excess is
part of the process that a pilot flies clubs planes.
Was the Bushbaby involved worth R350,000.00 and if it was only insured for R200,000.00 Who's fault is that.

[Morph]

I am really very dissapointed to hear this. A few weeks ago I published a post on this subject which at the time was vehimently denied by the school. As a result I published a retraction and an open letter of apology to the parties involved. Now this

1. The only witnesses were those on the ground, and their statements are based on assumption and conjecture. I'm not sure negligence could be proven. All the statements could give is purely opinion. I understand there could be affadavits to the fact. I suggest we look at each of these witnesses to determine their validity as a qualified witness. I.e. is the witness a valid pilot/instructor i.e. current. Were they rated on 3-axis or even better the Bush Baby. Did they in fact see the accident. On what grounds are they basing their assumption of negligence.

2. If I under insure a car and have an accident the insurance company will only pay out a percentage of the claim based on the percentage ensured. The fault lies with me, the insured, not the insurance company nor any other party. If an employee was driving the car at the time I would have no claim for my deliberate underinsurance from him or his estate. Insurance companies will also only pay for current value and not replacement value. These are the risks we all take knowingly, when we insure a vehicle.

Finally my opinion is you have the legal and moral views. Even if it transpires that you have a legal claim, what about the moral ramifications of a widow and children facing these claims

[Ranger]

Just a few questions to Louis.

Are these allegations true or not?
If they are on what grounds are you sueing?

Advice: Don't rely too much on the witnesses. By the stories they told one would swear they were either drunk, on viagra or they were astronaughts.

AND: If these allegations are true then to all of those who came out with guns blazing in defense of Louis and nailed a few of Junkies freinds for speaking in his defense, shame on you. Shame, shame, shame. You obviously don't know YOUR freind Louis.

REMEMBER NOW. If these allegations are not true then we can all be freinds with a common goal, FLYING.

I personally think that if it so happens that a school should end up in the very, very, very, very unfortunate situation of having to sue someone's estate, one should way up how much income will be lost in the long run compared to the short term financial gain. After all who would want to train at a school where there's a chance of you being sued if you damage a plane.


Bye the way, a yellow giro flew low over Morningstar on Monday afternoon from East to West ignoring circuit altitude or joining altitude.
Anybody perhaps know who it was?

[Dreamer]

Looks like lots of "It appears" and speculation here..is that not what started the the first hoohaaaa..........I have no involvement and dont know the players involved but surely this should be left untill there is definate knowledge .................oh and just a thought ,if there is a legal and valid claim, how many here would pay the R100 000 or whatever out of their own pockets?...........speculation and assumption achieve nothing, no room for home judgements based on emotion.

Just an outside observer's Zim$ 200000 worth.

[Morph]

This is not speculation. There is a claim of R126000 against the estate. The speculation is whether or not the claim of negligence is valid and whether there is a claim for a shortfall of insurance due to under insurance of the plane.

Lets not let this thread descend into a bashing campaign, but rather a constructive one. Anything other than your comments around the questions above you are welcome to pm or email to K7 (Junkie's brother) and he'll ensure the family gets them.

[Coyote]

The flight school in question made Morph grovel for forgiveness at the
publication of this untrue slander which was in fact true. I read the flight schools blatant denial of any truth to the rumour - so in my opinion the person in question is not only unethical but in fact a liar. Disappionted Louise very disapointed - I think that this is going to do your school alot of damage and you probably deserve it!!!!

[Tumbleweed]

This post has relevance to anyone hiring or training in someone else's plane and would be a shame to be removed.

I think the facts should be made available. Is the insurance company excercising their right to reclaim from having made a payout to the school, or is the school sueing?

If it's the insurance Co, it's normal procedure and if it revolts anyone, cancel all your insurances, coz that's how it works. It's a process, nothing more. Morality has nothing to do with it. They're reclaiming an expence.

If they were tracing a deceased Herts car hirer's family of dubious adress i.e. stand 12611, Soweto, they would have chucked it long ago.

[andreb]

Does anyone have any idea whether the family can afford to pay this money?

[Morph]

I know that they are considering having to sell the house

[andreb]

If it gets to that, can we not help as a community. Maybe set up a general fund to be used for this kind of tragedy, or treat each incident as a special case.
I would be willing to contribute.
A

[Tumbleweed]

They don't have to pay a cent untill the judge says so. He has to be convinced that the pilot was negligent, not just responsible. He will then establish whether the estate can afford it and if so, how much per month.

This is a whole lot of nothing. You don't get sued coz someone delivers a letter of demand. You get sued only when you have contested it in court and when the judge tells you to cough up.

[Bennie Vorster]

Who said the man didn’t had a hart attack or a blackout in the plain? And will that qualify him to be negligent? Or am I just been silly beyond reasonable dote?

[DarkHelmet]

K7 - this is sad news, however - I am sure all of us want to know who is doing the sueing? An insurance company or the school/owner of the aircraft?

[justin.schoeman]

The excess insurance is fairly standard. A school's policy will generally have an excess of R25k, of which R20k can be insured by the pilot. Most schools require that the pilot carry such responsibility, or carry the liability of the excess.

In an accident, the pilot (or his personal insurance) would be responsible for the R20k, and the owner would be responsible for the remaining R5k (not insurable). If negligence was involved, the pilot would be responsible for both amounts.

In this case the uninsurable excess may have been R6k, instead of R5k, giving the R26k amount.

In either case, the pilot (or his estate) will be responsible for the R20k excess. (UNLESS he was not made aware of this by the school!)

IANAL! As to the R100k, as far as I know, they can make no claim of that amount (or the R6k uninsured excess) until the CAA has made an official ruling. To say negligence was involved without an official CAA report to this effect is meaningless.

-justin

[Boet]

My 2c`s.
1. This matter does not concern anyone else.
2. I am sad about the loss of my friend`s life.
3. Louis is also my friend. He lost his property. ( His plane.)
4. If you want to bad-mouth anyone else, at least do it under your own name.
And this is all I will say about this whole mess. Stop this thread. NOW.