Was your AP worth it's weight...

Matters of general interest

Was your AP /ATF worth it or truthful? (legalities apart)

Yes
10
67%
No
5
33%
 
Total votes: 15
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RV4ker (RIP)
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:37 pm

FYI
MPI for a simple C172 PA 28 (the windlass of the bliks :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )type aerie (Standard charge to ensure all OK and do the annual oil change etc.) is in region of R3K in the sticks and closer to R5K in Jhb & excludes any spares.... (that would be a labour charge for doing the MPI). Some of the complex 3 axis boys would def fall into this category and I would think the new complex fast trike types (P&M come to mind) would be in similar league. The systems are not as simple as in yeaster years. When I get there I would prefer to agree on a rate and scope of work and let the chips fall where they may, but that is more blik mentality as we not allowed to work on our aeries.
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Postby DieselFan » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:27 am

GR8-DAD wrote:Considering the time, travel, admin and expertise that goes into an inspection, I think the AP fees (R350, or even R500) are too little by far ( oppas Boet :twisted: ). To have your MPI done is NOT an issue of where you can have it done at the cheapest rate, but rather who is the most reputable and qualified person to actually do it, and if his fees are low, then good for you.
Nicely put, and thanks for the info Leprechaun.
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Postby Beaver 550 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:42 am

I like the way the so called pilot take the AP with on the test flight to see whether the AP has done a good job. The AP has to get in the aircraft and trust the idiot that is flying. Because he arrived safely the first time does not mean he is going to do it again.[/quote]
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Postby DieselFan » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:45 am

:lol:
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RV4ker (RIP)
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:29 am

Beaver 550 wrote:I like the way the so called pilot take the AP with on the test flight to see whether the AP has done a good job. The AP has to get in the aircraft and trust the idiot that is flying. Because he arrived safely the first time does not mean he is going to do it again.
Same could be said for the idiot who swings te spanners. It all about mutual trust and respect...
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Postby Beaver 550 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:36 am

(It all about mutual trust and respect.) So because of mutual trust the AP get to go on the flight. A bit one sided to me
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:10 pm

Beaver I think you missing the point I trying to make. I am happy for the AP to go fly the aerie with his chosen pilot/instructor or fly it himself. How can an assessment of the flying (airworthyness) of an aerie be done without flying in it? Am I way off base here? Is a test flight (before or after) required?

Did say that it would possibly be a different issue in trike environment. I have 3 axis background and I say again all maintenance is done by the AP. It possibly all academic discussion in anycase as it what each individual is happy with. Again if he only does inspection it a different story as he is relying on others workmanship. Maybe that were confusion comes in in this case? For me if he works on it he must be willing to fly in it.

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Postby Beaver 550 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:33 pm

By law a test flight by an CAA approved test pilot is required after inspection(tin aircraft). No passengers allowed on test flight.
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Postby Beaver 550 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:37 pm

How do i start a pole to see which AP are happy with there customers
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:07 pm

Done.. :wink:

PS
Have found very few service provifers who are happy with thier customers for any long perios of time.
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Postby Beaver 550 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:39 pm

AME for 30 years. Go with on every test flight. :D
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:45 pm

Beaver 550 wrote:AME for 30 years. Go with on every test flight. :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Morph » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:16 pm

As the owner of the microlight I find myself solely responsible to perform the maintenance on the aircraft. It is my choice to do it myself or hire a professional. It is also my responsibility to maintain an accurate logbook. Unfortunately as you have to trust the AP, he has to trust you to be truthful in the logbook and with the quality of work done.

As Gr8-dad said, the best solution is to get an AP who is highly knowledgeable of you particular model to do the inspection. In my case, Peter Wolf, here in CT is the agent and AP for Challenger aircraft and he did all my inspections when I still had AUKie. Doing an inspection with him is a pleasure because he understands the model so well, when improvements were made, which bulletins are relevant etc. Gr8-dad can attest in great detail, as other owners of Challengers that other certain AP's have done a potentially life threatening inspection on planes. :shock: :twisted:

It is difficult for other AP's to give you an accurate inspection if they don't have this knowledge. They are fooling themselves and you. However the big problem is access to the guy who knows your plane. If there is only one sitting in Loeriefontein, how do you get an inspection in Durban.

What would be a brilliant idea IMHO is to start a central repository, within CAA(yeah right) or Aeroclub or probably Misasa, that documents the details around each and every model in great detail. Build a file on the BushBaby, service bulletins, torque specs, measurements, expected lifespan of components, replacement schedules, faults etc etc that is accessible to every registered AP in South Africa.

I would go one further for example and have the most highly qualified Bush Baby AP, set up the checklist with all the data in it i.e. how many millimeters play should there be on the main axle bearings, or how should the linkage between control column and aileron bellcrank be set up. This information is then held centrally, the AP doing the inspection can go online and study the notes and download the relevant checklists. In this way you can ensure that the trustworthy AP will perform a given level of inspection Additionally it is the responsibility of each and every manufacturer of new aircraft to provide this central repository with the recommended inspection lists for their aircraft.
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Postby Beaver 550 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:52 pm

Good idea. We have AD,s Mandatory service bulletins, optional service bulletin, service advisories, Services news letters,service news flashes, CAA regulations amendments to maintenance manuals, amendments to S\B..en so voorts. Personel have to be enployed to generate and update these documents. These all get sent to the owner if they subscribe to it or the AP will have to subscribe to it. This costs money. For an aircraft inspection we can spend 8 - 12 hours at 400 plus an hour just on the documentation. Some body has to pay for this. I take my hat off to the AP,s who does it for a minimal amount. Find one you trust love him and feed him
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