Was your AP worth it's weight...

[DieselFan]

Speaking with various experts in the microlight community and engine gurus, most place no trust in AP's or more specifically what the paper says about your plane. And my limited experience with having mine APeed.

Spoke to other people who had their planes Apeed only to replace flying wires weeks thereafter, or engine mountings. The list goes on. When they phone for spares and say but the plane was just APeed they get a chuckle or sigh on the other side

[Dreamer]

Get an AP that takes the responsibility of signing that piece of paper seriously, who does not cut corners or "sign off" under pressure from the owner. We have to do it, so get it done by the right person. If you were given a pass and then found faults as mentioned then in my opinion that AP was playing with your life and should lose his AP status at the very least. I know who I will be taking my plane to and I know I will feel secure in the result.

[DieselFan]

Ironically one comment was "Well at the end of the day as a microlighter YOU take responsibility for your aircraft"

[Dreamer]

True and as I see it , part of our responsibility (duty) is to have the plane AP'd and the AP's responsibility is do a thorough and complete job, informing us of anything that may need repair, replacement etc, it is then our responsibility to get it done before the plane is signed off. I am learning but dont have a fraction of the knowledge an AP should have so as I see it I rely on that persons knowledge to keep me on the right track. I reckon if a plane is signed off as "airworthy" and the next day crashes because of something that should have been picked up in the inspection then the AP should be (maybe is) open to legal action, even as far as culpable homicide is the case of a fatality.

Just my opinion, not sure of the reality.....

[Big-D]

Well at the end of the day as a microlighter YOU take responsibility for your aircraft

True, problem comes in when you are a computer guru or beancounter and know very little about technical stuff(no disrespect towards your or my profession Diesel).

I had ZU-AZU AP'd before Nkwazi bought her and I have never worked so hard in my life AP used me to help him take off the wing and we went through everything with a fine tooth comb. Took about 1 and a half hours.

I recon it is worth it for sure

Fat Dave

[DieselFan]

Well at the end of the day as a microlighter YOU take responsibility for your aircraft

True, problem comes in when you are a computer guru or beancounter and know very little about technical stuff(no disrespect towards your or my profession Diesel).

I had ZU-AZU AP'd before Nkwazi bought her and I have never worked so hard in my life AP used me to help him take off the wing and we went through everything with a fine tooth comb. Took about 1 and a half hours.

I recon it is worth it for sure

Fat Dave

The more I find out about Microlighting the more I realise YOU had better learn fast cause those around you, some with 1000's of hours, well lets just say if you took their advice you'd either have an engine out or have expensive damages. I've been very tempted to post a thread showing my experiences... NOT TO GIVE ANYONE A BAD NAME but to show how much or little people in the know know - Very sensitive topic hence the reason why I'm scrutinizing Rudi's teardown. Also I can't post because people would make the link and many would lose respect, albeit get their act together.

This forum and Google help ALOT.

[DieselFan]

I reckon if a plane is signed off as "airworthy" and the next day crashes because of something that should have been picked up in the inspection then the AP should be (maybe is) open to legal action, even as far as culpable homicide is the case of a fatality.

Just my opinion, not sure of the reality.....

Perhaps FF or the little Green man can assist with the law here?

[Spongebob]

As a non owner that regularly hires to fly I have the following questions:

What is the price range you pay to have a ml ap'd.

What is the AP supposed to check, is it just the airframe?

And yes, it seems to me you either learn quickly or you are taken for a ride( or maybe a flip). Fortunately this forum is a great help in learning

[DieselFan]

What is the price range you pay to have a ml ap'd.

Not sure didn't pay for mine.

What is the AP supposed to check, is it just the airframe?

Anything that affects the airworthiness or the aircraft I would assume, so thats undercarriage, wing etc.

You should be able to climb in and fly once signed off, without worries that you're about to die with the wing threads coming apart or the strength of the sail being too weak etc.

The whole idea of it being law is for OUR protection right?

Howcome 80 views and only 6 votes? Remember were you 100% confident with what was signed out?

I'm sorry to post such a negative thread but I want to see if the experiences I've heard etc were isolated? To my knowledge the votes are anonymous

[Tailspin]

Hey DieselFan

Alot of people live in glass houses so lets not throw stones
Most AP's will not deliberately sign off an aircraft that is not airworthy, they also do not have X-Ray vision. I myself am not an AP although i am building my own aircraft and now look at my bird with a whole different respect i also have checked a set of engine mounts and they lookd fine to me, 3 hours later they were in bad need for replacement. Also the AP takes the word of the pilot who swears blind he does not exceed a 15deg bank but when the flying wires snap under intense pressure the first person who gets blamed is the AP. What was the pilot doing to make those cables snap
I am not fighting but we need to look objectively at both sides of the coin.

I bought a lovely bargin, the owner said she is ready to fly just reassemble and fly no worries Decided to have a AP check her out, two years later and a complet rebuild has me trusting the AP and thinking the pilot / seller wanted to just get rid of the bird.

Just my 1 Zim dollars worth

Sorry if i stepped on any toes !

[DieselFan]

Tailspin, I don't think it's a deliberate sign off, but more laziness, lack of being as thorough as the job and safety dictates?

In terms of the engine mounts needing replacement 3 hours later was there no way you could have seen that, ie being more thorough, what did you see that made you replace them?

Besides I've had some replies re this post and it quite obvious that there are varying levels of "enthusiasm" shown by AP's. Some seemingly doing no more than a "PREFLIGHT" and weight check (scale under wheel).

This isn't a witch hunt or meant to get personal at all, but it does raise doubts around the trustworthiness of an ATF and when more votes come in whether we indeed have an issue or mere exceptions. I doubt it's as bad as a car's road worthy certificate

How thorough must an AP be? Leprechaun can you help here, from emails and pm's ppl have sent me you seem to be VERY highly recommended.

[Tailspin]

Hi DieselFan

I understand where you are coming from. The engine mounts were starting to show cracks and when i pulled the motor off and did a real twist bend etc of the mounts i noticed cracks on the inside that were not noticeable while the motor was still in place. There are some AP's who are not the best and do alot of Favours for friends but then the pilot/owner of the aircraft should also be brought to book

If you let your Aircraft deteriate to a state where the dog won't lift his leg to it then it is your own fault and people who notice this should then inform the necessary authoroties or at least approach you as the owner of the craft and voice their concerns and if no joy then go to the Authoroties

I think with some of the things happening in Aviation in general the AP's will be sorted from the kick the tyres and light the fires guys.

[Leprachaun]

Hi Folks , as a MISASA/ AEROclub registered AP I would like to share a few thoughts with you all .
Prices range from R150 ,00 to R600,00 - for an AP
I charge R350,00 within a 50Km range from Pretoria - if its further I will negotiate a rate as well as toll fees.
I have a MISASA / Aeroclub approved form , four sheets which I work through - Preferably with the owner present .as I would like to show him what I do !
Its all there , black and white - I want to see the log book ,check all the whats done when by whom and where - was the plane abused , in an accident or drowned in the Mozambique channel .
I have all the manuals for the Trikes i have on my AP licence . (ratings )
They are studied in detail the previous day so I know what to look for .
Your MISASA / Aeroclub membership is a prerequisite or else I have no insurance should a claim arise .
You are entiteled to check my credentials - I have an Aproved stamp as well as a Licence book - please check them .
Should you not be satisfied you are wellcome to report me (the AP ) to CAA and the Aeroclub who will hear me out and if neccessary revoke my licence .
I have to keep record of all inspections done as well as as repairs that have been done .
Aeroclub will "stand by me " in the case of a claim - unless it is proved to be a latent defect . then I will meet the full force of the law and in the case of an accident due to my oversight/ ignorance I can and will be charged with cupable homocide -
To end off you pay a bargain price you get the result - For R350,00 I think its a fail deal -
Should you want a wing off inspection please put a full day aside as the cover is removed , inspected and replaced at a price of R1000,00 to R1500,00 negotiable .
Fly safely
Leprachaun

[RV4ker (RIP)]

My RV get's AP'd by an AMO (insurance issues). The Cubby & Martha by AP. They do the maintenance as well as inspection. I insist that they go with me on the test flight and both are willing to come with me on the test flight. If they were not I would find one who would. That is usually the test for me. If the AP comes along then he is happy with his work. Sometimes it costs a bit more and they are often dissapointed if they see they not gonna get their test ride. ...

May not be as simple with a trike where owner maintained. I know a couple who will not get in a 503 on the reef regardless of the circumstances? Some will also not fly with low time pilot? What to do?

[GR8-DAD]

My AP is the infamous BOET from Loeries,......and I dare not say anything about his weight... ....or I'll get neutralized

My preference is to use an AP that is an expert on that specific aerie, in this case the Bushbaby. Except for the standard checklists that are used, the AP will know all the weak/potential weak areas of the aircraft and spend more time checking them out as the more critical points.

Considering the time, travel, admin and expertise that goes into an inspection, I think the AP fees (R350, or even R500) are too little by far ( oppas Boet ). To have your MPI done is NOT an issue of where you can have it done at the cheapest rate, but rather who is the most reputable and qualified person to actually do it, and if his fees are low, then good for you.

I also have friends that are AP's, but do not use them at all - want to avoid any potential future legal issues or bad vibes - keep it simple!