Being in the WRONG at Rhino ...... was I ?

[emil]

Hi all please read the following and tell me if you think I was in the wrong or not…

I took my brother in law up for the first flight of his life at rhino this morning..

IT was me and a trike in the air. I took off like normal …was flying at + - 200 ft till I got to the OLD GF area and I started playing a bit. Going low and fast. Going low and slow climbing exct…

As I called for downwind I realized my radio is not working……I saw the trike has landed. And thought it is safe to do a fly by so that a pic can be taken of him flying..as I climbed out again I saw 2 gyros coming in and joining on down wind. I stayed lower then them…and extended my downwind leg giving them a chance to land. And I landed..

As I got on the ground my boet said I should go see the CFI….”flying the trike”

He said I should not fly low as it distracts his student and if I know how the circuits work…I said yes I do and sorry for the radio that failed on me a new one has been ordered..

He then said If I continue to fly low and close to the powerlines ..Witch I never was close to they are going to chase me away as they are rebuilding Rhino…was I really in the WRONG..and deserve the word we are going to chase you away ???

[Tumbleweed]

Emil, my thoughts,

You said "me and a trike", I presume you with a pax. and a trike in the circuit.

I don't think anyone, especially with pax, should be playing 200ft. let alone within the vicinity of the circuit.

You should have reached circuit height of 500 ft, announce leaving circuit and direction / intentions.

At the first sign of radio failure you should have landed at the earliest convenience, preferbably on a grass / second choice strip. I think it did'nt matter whether you were lower, I would have visibly diverted from the circuit till everyone was already on the ground.

I was politely 'kakked out' by our senior instructor for driving my bakkie around the beginning of the strip on an aetablished route to hangars whilst he and a new student p.p.l were in final approach.

Regardless whether I did or not obstruct them I should always apply airmanship and 'look out'.

Also added a new awareness to his brand new student.

[Leprachaun]

Hi Emile , Airmanship and attitude is what it boils down to , ....
Where did you get your licence , is it still current and has your plane a current authority to fly? I think you were wrong and you know it , why take off with a plane that has a radio problem , your words , we ordered one this week - if other aircraft are in the circuit, busy with training why fly and do funnies fly low, turn ,climb ,etc with a " new " pax - do you want to scare him , - if you want pictures , take them on the ground , the normal "mik and druk" will only see the bottom of your plane , or a black dot on the screen , - once again , taxi speed , must you race up and down the intersection ?, without a stop and a lookout for other traffic! , what about the dust trail you left in the workshop where the guys are busy repairing Rotax engines - its attitude and consideration , which seem to be lacking in this case- - Jy het pak gevra , vat dit soos n man .
Regards Leprachaun
Ps Please answer my first questions

[justin.schoeman]

Two points:

1) Radio failure procedure requires procedural landings at an uncontrolled airfield. i.e. Join overhead at specific altitude. Descend to circuit alt on dead side. Join downwind at standard circuit alt. and procede to land. Doing a low flypast, or any other non-procedural flying is a big no-no.

2) Doesn't Rhino have noise abatement policies? Most semi-rural airfields have a 500' min altitude limit to keep neighbours happy.

-justin

[emil]

Leprachaun..every thing is current and legal...
( got my license in 1999 @ Rhino) i did not race up and down ..it is a skyfox it does not have a steerable nose wheel...so you need a bit of rpm for it to be able to steer...and as far as the intersection goes...i dont think i will go onto ANY runway ANYWHERE without looking for traffic and that is what i did

ok then i will except i was in the wrong and say sorry...
rhino is a uncontroled field so that is why i landed back there with the radio failing.....and give the other trafic right of way...

sorry again

p.s justin i was flying in the old GF .no where near the circuit

[justin.schoeman]

It does seem a bit strange at first to fly a standard circuit if your radio fails, but it does make a lot of sense - it is a lot easier to spot another plane at a similar level to yuorself, and take appropriate avoiding action. If, however, you are flying much lower than someone else, it is entirely possible that neither of you will be able to see the other until your circuits converge on short final ...

-justin

[emil]

hi
Justin like i said i extende my downwind leg i saw the one land then the other i did a 360 looking for other planes in the air and then landed.....i went to the one gyro that landed and said sorry to not talk but my radio was gibin problems ..he said they had me cleary in sight and saw what i was doing and giving them way to land

[Fairy Flycatcher]

It seems most people forget that no Microlight or any other NTCA needs to be equipped with a radio if flying in class G airspace, under 1500AGL.

Many people act as if you have flown with a torn wing or a cracked strut if you take off without a radio. You might have local rules, but its not against the law.

Secondly, many people fly relying on their radios and if I know most of the guys at my local strip will expect me to have a radio on board, I think I would also keep well clear of the circuit to some extent and my eyes open to make sure that I don't fly in conflict with other people who might not expect me. Flying lower than the circuit, is also an option, as you can then see the other aircraft more clearly. Seeing an aircraft above you is much easier than below you, and as many pilots stop looking out once they are in the circuit, and rely too much on their radio, I think its probably a fairly wise thing.

Low flying can be fun. Low flying can be safe (ish). In some instances its probably safer than doing a XC over Valey of a 1000 hills at 2000' AGL. There are many places where I think 200' AGL is plenty and other places where even 4000'AGL is scary. Just saying low flying is bad is silly. Its not always wise, but then again, flying is dangerous. Thats it. And having fun is what microlighting is all about.

The law only says you may only fly below 500' if you can do so without hazard or nuisance. Whether that now means you may be a nuisance and a hazard above 500' I don't know, but THAT law is sooooo open to debate its not funny.

Crop sprayers fly low. Air shows are generally low. Landing and taking off is generally fairly low as well So rejecting low level flying outright is a bit short sighted.

I don't know the area around your airfield well enough, nor the local rules well enough, so can't comment on how right or wrong you are.

Taxi speeds at fast walking pace is a guideling for a number of reasong, but those reasons are not always cast in stone. I know that I sometimes taxi the Dragonfly on the main gear, with tail wheel in the air, and David takes it a step futher, but flying it to the hangar from the threshold of the runway to fetch some stuff we forgot for an aerotow.

If you were a hazard to anyone, or you made people scatter in all directions, if you blew dust onto someone, or made their wings rock because you did not position for start-up properly or did your powerchecks without considering traffic behind you, that's bad airmanship, no doubt about that.

If you upset people because you flew outside the box they restrict themselves to, well... get advice from David Levy on this one

[lamercyfly]

Hi Emil.

After reading your mail, my comment is as follows:

1. Radio's are not compulsory items on NTCA aircraft, as long as you remain in uncontrolled airspace. The law does not specify a vertical limit, but it makes common sense that you should then remain below 1500feet AGL, as in general if you fly higher than that, you should be chatting to Johannesburg control on Flight Level. So, you cannot do that without a radio, so it makes sense to remain below 1500feet AGL.

2. It is very difficult to spot aircraft that are at your level, or lower than you, so it does make sense to remain rather low. This can be hazardous in itself, as any flight lower than 500AGL requires exceptional skill, plus a good knowledge of the area. In this case you do have good knowledge of the area, so I cannot find fault in what you did. Whether your flying skills are of the required level to pull of low level flying? Well , you answer that to yourself. But remember to learn all new skills while flying solo, and only later introduce passengers to it.

3. Local rules are local rules. These you cannot argue about, until the next AGM. So, if the local rules require a radio, then you should comply. I note that you have apologised, although I am not quite sure what you apologized for, as both the gyro pilots were not offended by your flying. If your flying created a situation for the solo student, well, I will reserve my comment about that. Needles to say, a student should not be solo if they cannot handle reasonable situations.

4. Whether your aircraft has a valid authority to fly, and whether your licence is current or not? I hardly see the connection between that and your flying and this chat group.

5. Enjoy your flying. It is lekka. And if you get booted off, then know that you will most probably find a home at Panorama :D The okes all fly like maniacs there. I now, cause I have seen how old Mike Cathro has become :D :D And they've got a brotherhood nogal.

6. If your airfield does not have procedures for taking off and flying without radio's, or for aircraft joining from elswhere without radio's, then may I suggest that this be put on the next AGM. At La Mercy (and we are in the Special Rules Area East for Durban, and it is very, very busy airspace) we allow our local pilots, including microlights, to operate without radio's. It can be done safely and without incident. Actually, it makes for far better airmanship, because EVERYBODY keeps their eyes WIDE OPEN.

[emil]

thank lamercyfly will keep it in mind

just so that you know as for the low flying i think i have been flying at rhino before any of the guys currently there including the CFI...i have no less than 100 hours at rhino...i know the place well and where all the no go areas and power lines are...as for my own ability ..i wont do any thing i can't

Thanks for the response

[loansharkblv]

Hi Emil,

My thoughts and feelings…..

1)

Ordered the new radio bit

, it seems as if the radio had been giving you trouble previously yet you elected to fly irrespective. Now what FF says is true but having been in a similar circumstance with a pair of headsets I self grounded myself until the problem was sorted out – I must admit I am a bit hesitant to fly around in my area without a radio as we have quite a bit of traffic at times but your situation may have been different, and if you know the local a/c patterns and the radio was only failing 1 in x times for a brief period then the risk was minimized I would say.

2)

As I called for downwind I realized my radio is not working……

Again, me personally in this circumstance and I would have landed but that is just me – The fact that you elected to do a flyby, taking everything into consideration as well as your hours in the area does not seem to be a risky maneuver – The types of aircraft that we all fly here do not have 20 mile circuits. You spotted the other 2 a/c in the circuit and I believe your actions where under the circumstances where satisfactory.

3) Leprachaun poses a question or two that where not mentioned in your first post

must you race up and down the intersection ?, without a stop and a lookout for other traffic! , what about the dust trail you left in the workshop where the guys are busy repairing Rotax engines

– This is where the story gets interesting – I am assuming that Leprachaun and you fly from the same airfield and there seems to be some history here…… This changes the picture slightly onto one of perception – Remember, if you hangermates perceive you to be a reckless sort they will always try to find fault in any of your actions whether justified in this case or not – If my assumptions are correct I would imagine that if the flyby had occoured as described, to perhaps another pilot, then the CFI may have been a bit less agitated with the occurrence.

4) Any lastly, the CFI’s words -

He then said If I continue to fly low and close to the powerlines ..Witch I never was close to they are going to chase me away as they are rebuilding Rhino…was I really in the WRONG..and deserve the word we are going to chase you away ???

I have no other background here other that that which has been written in the post so to be completely subjective I can not offer any comment on this. What I can say is that (removed from this situation entirely) it is always good to have a group on individuals that are prepared to become unpopular with a pilot and chase him/her away from an airfield if they consistently display poor airmanship – Whenever I take family or friends up in our local airspace I am secure in the knowledge that the local flying fraternity are all well trained and adhere to high standards of airmanship – This is not to say that some of us do not make mistakes from time to time, but rest assured once they are back on Terra Firma the situation is discussed with them (not in a patronizing way) and once again we raise the local flying bar……

[Morph]

Emil,

I think we could debate ad nausiem whether you were right or wrong etc but this is my opinion. Rules is rules. A busy airfield, especially if there is a lot a training going on is the last place you want to loiter around made even worse if the radio is not working. The last thing a student needs is to try to concerntrate on doing circuits when someone, experienced as you are, does something completely opposite to what his CFI has been telling him and who is not contactable on radio. The CFI probably drums into the student the absolute requirment of sticking to the rules, no exceptions. Now the student's mind is going to be on what you are doing and not on flying.

The other day I took off and was headed for Fisantekraal. As I approached the airfield, I climbed to joining alt of 2000ft and changed freq to the local freq. As I was talking I noticed that halfway through the radio call, calls from the planes in circuit would bleed over my transmission, even though my ptt was depressed. I looked at the radio and noticed that when I keyed the mike, the radio would die and come back a second later. My batteries were flat and the power on the plane would not keep the radio running (ICOM A4 Sport the 12 input is for charging only)

I immediately turned around and left the airspace, returning with some haste to my home field.

Saturday, while flying with a friend (her first flight) I joined Morning Star overhead at 1500ft and called intentions to land. When on downwind, and just after calling intentions another pilot (who is an AP and a strict one at that) called "Taxiing to holding point 20". I called again that I was on Downwind for a full stop (I had also just spoken to others so I knew my radio was working) Here I am telling this lady, who was nervous, that the guy would hold at the holding point and wait for me to land when without even stopping he enters and backtracks along 20. I called him and he didn't respond, by this time I had turned base. I announced that I was going around and indicated that there was another aircraft on the runway. I circled around and rejoined on downwind. This guy (who as I say is strict and has given me a hard time in the past with things relating to the plane) sits on the threshold. Eventually I extended my downwind and finally he takes off, announcing a straight out. I watched him carefully to see that he was in fact flying straight and then joined base and long finals to land.

You must stick to the rules, even though technically there is no law that forces you to have a radio etc, otherwise you piss other pilots off and they will always be nervous flying near/with you. Me personally would never fly without a radio unless I was up in the karoo on my own farm and the chances of encountering another aircraft was remote.

[t-bird]

I have trained and hangered at Rhino for 2 years.

The dust issue:
Next to the airfield is a quad bike circuit with hundreds of quads driving on a Saturday and Sunday. There is no way that an aircraft can make more dust than these quads.

The rules:
While renting hanger space I have requested that the rules for Rhino should be e-mailed to everybody that is renting there. This request was made after a paraglider was pulled-up infront of me without any Radio work.
In two years time I have not received any rules form Rhino Park. And there was no rules posted at the Restaurant or at the hangers.

Low flying
Every Sunday afternoon there was two Pitts specials that would beat up the runway. Everybody knows who they were and no action was taken against them.
One afternoon I was standing next to the hanger and the red and white Pitts was flying inverted 2 meters form the ground with my plane standing next to the hanger. And kids playing around these hangers as this was the x runway that was not in use at the time.

It sounds like someone has a grudge against E-mil and try to nail him on his flying. Wrong place at the wrong time.

[emil]

thanks for every ones response...bu it seem there is a few thing you guys missed...

1. Raceing up and down the runway....it was a skyfox i was flying in ..it does not have a steerable nose wheel..but steers with the rudder when there is enough flow over it......

2.. the fly by was done when it was only me in the air and before i realized the radio failed once again...

3 the radio not working....it was fixed but seemed the same problem stuck its head out....like i said i wont fly to put my own or any ones else lifes in danger.....

4. it is the firs time in almost 2 years that i fly there i dont know a third of the people so if it is a personal thing well good luck to the CFI as i have never seen him before that

thanks again for the response

[Morph]

I have trained and hangered at Rhino for 2 years.

The rules:
While renting hanger space I have requested that the rules for Rhino should be e-mailed to everybody that is renting there. This request was made after a paraglider was pulled-up infront of me without any Radio work.
In two years time I have not received any rules form Rhino Park. And there was no rules posted at the Restaurant or at the hangers.

A different problem but a problem nevertheless. If there are no rules then it is all a matter of perception and a moving target. You try to fly in to FAFK and not abide by the correct procedures, you get a right bollocking over the airways and correctly so, It is a very busy training airfield. Morning Star is not a training airfield but there are published and common knowledge rules, (join overhead at 1500, decend on the western side, all circuits east of the N7 etc etc)

Low flying
Every Sunday afternoon there was two Pitts specials that would beat up the runway. Everybody knows who they were and no action was taken against them.

In the absence of any rules these guys can and do what they please. Put rules in place and enforce them. It's only a matter of time before there are more sad stories.