Ramp Inspection Checklist-no response??

[Bundy]

To all Misasa Members,

In the latest NL, the following appeared:

A Re-look at Ramp inspections and requirements for NTCA’s:

Recently, JB posted the following on Microlighters.co.za…

“We have been approached (as have other appropriate ARO's) by RAASA to advise and guide them in their endeavour to rectify clear shortcomings in the interpretation of Part 61 regulations and making them applicable to our type of aircraft. It is a known fact that what you can carry in a WCM may not be the same as you would need in a LSA or CCM for instance, and it is for this reason, the differentiation needs to be clarified and be tested against regs for applicability and not thumb sucking by inspectors.

I give you an example... if you read the following link you will interpret the law as saying you do not have to have a fire extinguisher on board your aircraft - whether it be a WCM or LSA...

http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/ ... ctions.htm

So, here is your chance and lets be real about this. Obviously there shall be those that will say they would prefer not carrying any documentation but that is not going to happen. E-mail me what you would realistically be prepared to carry with you on your trips... comms@misasa.org

For example….

WCM: Copy of ATF, Copy of pilot licence, flight folio and a minimalistic first aid kit (storage & weight an issue!)

CCM's, LSA & Gyros: Copy of ATF, Copy of pilot licence, flight folio and a first aid kit. A small powder fire extinguisher (optional but not compulsory?) “


It is high time that this long standing contentious issue is ironed out and clear guideline’s for owners of NTCA’s be established. At last we see the value of being an ARO where we are consulted and involved, in partnership with the relevant Authorities, to plot a way forward and make this legislation applicable for our various types.

Please send John your thoughts and suggestions, I look forward to seeing some progress in the coming months.

It was also posted here on an old topic related to the same issues:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8280&start=150

We have recieved virtually no input from you guys?? Please respond urgently with your suggestions to JB or myself. This is your chance to be a part of simplifying the requirements for WCM/CCM and LSA respectively.

If you do not respond then we as a Committee will have to make the decision for you. PLEASE HAVE YOUR SAY! This must be finalised by the end of this week...so we can prepare Misasa's submission to RAASA.

JB: comms@misasa.org
Bundy: pro@misasa.org

Thank you,

[John.com]

Email sent to your good selves!

Many thanks,

John.com

[CVStrong]

Hi Bundy,

I have been following this with baited breath, but because of my complete lack of knowledge in terms of the requirements, I have little to add... If my understanding was better I would definitely contribute...

Chat soon

Craig

[John Boucher]

Let's ask this... just to get the grey matter tingling!

A fire extinguisher in a trike - and it is going to achieve what in flight - awesome aerobatic display - smoke on go
Me > I would prefer the choice of carrying an extinguisher as opposed to be told to carry one!

Follow me signals - when have we ever used that in SA - sure it would be fun in an open cockpit!

Splints - my word, how many do you want on a trike, lap & pyp like a Cheetah..... lots of battens etc.

So how much space is there really in a Cubby or a VP2 to fit all the extra stuff?

How many of you use your compass??? Rather an alternative like a GPS..... ?

Instead of strips - why not High Viz vests (you need them on the apron of many airports)

Lets be logical

[Baitbird]

Let's ask this... just to get the grey matter tingling!

A fire extinguisher in a trike - and it is going to achieve what in flight - awesome aerobatic display - smoke on go
Me > I would prefer the choice of carrying an extinguisher as opposed to be told to carry one!

Follow me signals - when have we ever used that in SA - sure it would be fun in an open cockpit!

Splints - my word, how many do you want on a trike, lap & pyp like a Cheetah..... lots of battens etc.

So how much space is there really in a Cubby or a VP2 to fit all the extra stuff?

How many of you use your compass??? Rather an alternative like a GPS..... ?

Instead of strips - why not High Viz vests (you need them on the apron of many airports)

Lets be logical

John,
You hit the nail on the head

But I would ask to have a re-look at the contents of the WHOLE MEDICAL CIT - It feels as if i'm carting a medical toolbox around to keep a complete ICU in operation.
This is a weight AND space issue.
No - I'm not a doctor and can't argue what NEEDS to be in there and what not.
I just feel that it's pointless carting something that might be used .

Yes it certainly would be nice to have something when you need it, but the other 9999 times you're carting items with, that can actually cause more problems.

My 2 cents (or should I say 2 zuma's)

[Bulletjie]

I would suggest the following:

Small flip file with certified copies of ATF, license etc.
Small first aid kit.

Less is best!

[D2O]

Let's face it, we won't be able to cut out a lot of things we want to, but maybe trimming off the fat can help
Here's my list for WCM (if I had a choice, I'd just say copy of ATF, copy of licence & medical, first aid kit ):

Paperwork:
i. the certificate of registration - certified copy
ii. Current Authority to Fly - certified copy
iii. PIC licence and medical certificate - certified copy
iv. the current aircraft radio station licence - certified copy; or up to date proof of payment to ICASA
v. the certificate of release to service, or certified copy of airframe logbook signed and stamped by an AP (as per RAASA?)
vi. CAA-approved flight manual certificate - certified copy
vii. the mass and balance report - certified copy
viii. the flight folio
ix. the Minimum Equipment List (MEL) - What should be on this list as standard?
x. a list of visual signals and procedures for use by intercepting and intercepted aircraft - can be a quick guide A5 laminated 1 pager that fits in the flight suit pocket?

Equipment (as per the MEL):
Hand held fire extinguisher - optional
First aid kit - basic only (exclude items like nasal decongestant and antacids )
Signalling mirror - as opposed to signalling strips?
spare plugs (x2)
plug spanner
multi-tool
torch
Area map
Altimeter
VSI
Handheld airband radio
compass (as an option - i.e. no required annual compass swing)
GPS
Rev counter

My (now Zuma's) 2c

[John Boucher]

Okay... I am going to create a list and add or take away as we go along... don't try and me if you don't like what's on the list - make this a spanpoging!

You NEVER NEVER carry your AIRFRAME LOGBOOK or PILOT's LOGBOOK with you in your aeroplane!
Keep your TECHNICAL FILE with ORIGINALS in a safe place...

So when can a ramp check be done? By request - yes but it is also my opinion that whilst your aircraft is displayed on the ramp or in your hangar, there is no justifiable reason why your aircraft needs an inspection. If you had just landed or you intent is to fly, then that changes the matter => Agree or Disagree? If your aircraft is part of an ATO and used for commercial / training purposes, well that changes matters.

CC => Certified Copy not dated

WCM
1. Pilot's Licence, Medical Certificate, MISASA membership certificate
2. CC ATF & Release to Service by AP
3. CC ICASA Licence
4. CC Weight and Balance certificate (5 years) and not the little graphy thing that CAA wants before every flight... ffs, you know when you are over MTOW!!!
5. Last page of Flight Autho, fill it in and carry over to Flight Autho Book
6. Minimalistic First Aid Kit - to specify - owners discretion if he wants to carry more!
7. Map if more than 20 miles from base.
8. Compass cal not required if GPS used as secondary nav.

Strips, signals, High Viz vest/s or additional paraphernalia (toolkits etc......) Owner's discretion.

CCM & LSA
1. Pilot's Licence, Medical Certificate, MISASA membership certificate
2. CC ATF & Release to Service by AP
3. CC ICASA Licence
4. CC Weight and Balance certificate (5 years) and not the little graphy thing that CAA wants before every flight...
5. Last page of Flight Autho - fill it in and carry over to Flight Autho Book, owner discretion to carry with though
6. Minimalistic First Aid Kit - to specify - owners discretion if he wants to carry a whole pharmacy
7. Map if more than 20 miles from home base.
8. Small Halon or Powder Fire Extinguisher (owner discretion)
9. Compass cal not required if GPS used as secondary nav.

Strips, signals, high viz vests, fire extinguisher or additional documentation like Operators Manual and other paraphernalia...... owners discretion

If said inspector is then so eager to question any item or document, this can then be ratified within 7 days!

There is only one INSTRUMENT you need in my opinion for VFR.... AIRSPEED INDICATOR

[D2O]

John, your's sounds much better than mine!
I posted same time, go figure

[Bundy]

Here's my list for WCM....

1: CC of Cert of Registration (or digital scan on I pad/I phone)
2: CC of ATF (or digital scan on I pad/I phone)
3: Pilots licence and Medical Cert (Original)
4: POH
5: Basic fist aid kit
6: Cellphone
7: Current Map of the area

That's it.

Think about it...in order to have item 2 above...you need to submit ALL the other required paperwork to do so. Logic tells you that a current ATF is proof of the rest. Why have it all on board?

A fire extinguisher in a trike is useless once airbourne...so why put it on the list.

The simpler the requirements are, the easier it will be for our members to comply to them...and we will thus have far more legal pilots.

[John Boucher]

Hey Bundy, not entirely true on item 2 ... the overlap of ICASA (changing a radio from handheld to base may complicate that) However, If RAASA had issued the radio station license on behalf of ICASA I would agree.

I fly with my license in my pocket as a copy wont work at security at an airport.... so I have changed that.

[D2O]

Think about it...in order to have item 2 above...you need to submit ALL the other required paperwork to do so. Logic tells you that a current ATF is proof of the rest. Why have it all on board?

Without sounding like the prophet of doom, an ICASA inspector could ask you for proof of licence for the radio (he's not assosciated with RAASA or the CAA, and wouldn't recognise an ATF. All he wants to see is the ICASA licence).
It could be while you're parked at an airshow, and they just looove to check things like that because of so many general public having illegal handhelds.
It's better to have it, to avoid drama.

[D2O]

Hey Bundy, not entirely true on item 2 ... the overlap of ICASA (changing a radio from handheld to base may complicate that) However, If RAASA had issued the radio station license on behalf of ICASA I would agree.

I fly with my license in my pocket as a copy wont work at security at an airport.... so I have changed that.

Beat me to it again

[John Boucher]

Boo ha ha... maybe I should let you guys slog it out!

The problem with ICASA and the ATF. Even though you do provide proof of validity at the time of your application, there may be a period which you are not "legal" due to the ICASA fees not being paid. The ATF's validity is thus also "subject to" the validity of the ICASA license.... almost like your pilots license * being valid subject to the valdity of your medical.

[Bundy]

Are we talking about the same ICASA who take up to a year to post you said document?

I would however concede to your point...perhaps just proof of licence can be added to the list then.