Ramp Inspection List

[Morph]

Here is the Certificate of Release to service

I must say, in all the years I have owned aircraft, had them ap'd etc I have never been issued one of these by an AP.

SA-CATS-GMR119, Aviation Vol 3

[vernon11]

LOVE TO KNOW WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT.

VERNON.

[Morph]

I spoke to Braam Hechter from CAA.

There are two options here. Both are done at the annual inspection by the AP
1. your AP issues you with a sticker that is stuck on the plane somewhere with this information on
2. Your AP signs and stamps your log book and flight folio with the relevant wording, effectively issuing you with this certificate

[John Boucher]

I think the latter is the general practice presently.... The AP has to stamp your Aircraft Logbook anyway!

I think to be different, when CXO is ready for its check up then I'll get all official and do it as per certificate you posted Morph!

[Morph]

91.03.1 The owner or operator of an aircraft shall ensure that the following
documents, or certified true copies thereof, are carried on board the aircraft on
each individual flight:

Pierre said to me we must be aware that certified copies are only valid for 3 months. If the date has expired, so has the document's validity. He suggested it is best to keep the originals in there. I don't like the idea, especially for things like the registration card. The ATF is not an issue, because if the plane is destroyed it would be revoked anyway. I think an inspector who grounds your aircraft on the date of the certified copy is really being pedantic.

Can any legal eagles shed light on the period of validity of certified copies in South Africa?

[Eggbeater]

Hi All

Morph, to answer your question, the correct certification for a copy of a document is:

"Certified a true copy of the original hereof"

and when signed by a commissioner of oaths, that is exactly what it is, a true copy of the original and it has the same effect as and is as good as the original although this depends on whether it can be used as a substitute for the original as is provided for in 91.03.1.

So, if the original has expired then so too has the copy, if the original is still in force then so too is the copy. There is no expiry date and anyone saying that there is must be able to point to some piece of legislation which I doubt exists.

I hope this clears things up slightly.

[Goffel]

A certified copy is valid as long as the original is valid.

Goffel.....

[kloot piloot]

Goffel, Apologies are due. I missed the new thread here.

Thanks for the fire extinguisher explanation.

Friends still ?

Thanks for having you now on board.

[jpage]

Hi all

As a requirement to use my own aircraft for training at a flight school, I was asked to supply all the aircrafts documents to be kept on file at the school. I was able to supply everything except a certificate of release to service. Everyone that I spoke to said that the AP stamped logbook and folio at the annual were the same as a release to service. Eventually I phoned RAASA to get clarification on this, and Willem said that all the inspectors were aware of the situation as has been mentioned previously in this thread, and that the AP stamped logbook and folio were sufficient.

[Gyronaut]

Well I never....

Here is something I never knew (or probably overlooked). As a result of all the discussion around the soccer world cup, I came across the fact that Part 91 states you have to carry the list of visual signals for use by intercepting and intercepted aircraft on board!

Documents to be carried on board
91.03.1 The owner or operator of an aircraft shall ensure that the following
documents, or certified true copies thereof, are carried on board the aircraft on
each individual flight:

(a) If the aircraft is engaged in an international flight –
(i) the certificate of registration;
(ii) the certificate of airworthiness;
(iii) the appropriate licence of each flight crew member;
(iv) the journey logbook or general declaration;
(v) the aircraft radio station licence;
(vi) if passengers are carried, the passenger manifest, unless the information
is included in the general declaration referred to in subparagraph
(iv);
(vii) if cargo is carried, a manifest and detailed declaration of the cargo;
(viii) the certificate of release to service;
(ix) the navigation log when a navigator is carried;
(x) the aircraft flight manual, referred to in Regulation 91.03.2, or an
equivalent document, which document shall include the statements
referred to in paragraph (5) of Section 5 of Technical Standard
91.07.31 of Document SA-CATS-OPS 91, if flight in RVSM airspace
is contemplated;
(xi) the mass and balance report;
(xii) the flight folio;
(xiii) the MEL, if applicable;
(xiv) the noise certificate, if such certificate has been issued for the type
of aircraft; and
(xv) a list of visual signals for use by intercepting and intercepted aircraft;
(xvi) if a flight in RVSM airspace is contemplated –
(aa) a valid RVSM approval Certificate issued by the Commissioner;
and
(bb) if applicable, a valid RVSM operational approval for the particular
RVSM airspace.


(b) if the aircraft is engaged in a domestic flight –
(i) the certificate of registration;
(ii) the certificate of airworthiness;
(iii) the appropriate licence of each flight crew member
(iv) the aircraft radio station licence;
(v) the certificate of release to service;
(vi) the aircraft flight manual referred to in regulation 91.03.2 or an
equivalent document;
(vii) the mass and balance report;
(viii) the flight folio;
(ix) the MEL, if applicable;
(x) the noise certificate, if such certificate has been issued for the type
of aircraft; and
(xi) the list of visual signals for use by intercepting and intercepted
aircraft.

I have attached the relevant document here. I have printed it and will keep it in my aircraft,
I suggest those who haven't done it, do so if you wish to be legal.

Rgds

Len

[kloot piloot]

How interesting JetRanger

Learned something new. Always wondered whether any specific procedure existed before you get shot down.

p.s. How do we waggle wings in Gyro's and Trikes

[Gyronaut]

Kloot,
I dont bother waggling wings etc In a gyro.
With a Hawk or Gripen or a Rooivalk chooning me ... this is what I do.

[John Boucher]

We have been approached (as have other appropriate ARO's) by RAASA to advise and guide them in their endeavour to rectify clear shortcomings in the interpretation of Part 61 regulations and making them applicable to our type of aircraft. It is a known fact that what you can carry in a WCM may not be the same you need in a LSA and it is for this reason, the differentiation needs to be clarified and be tested against regs for applicability and not thumb sucking by inspectors.

I give you an example... if you read the following link you will interpret the law as saying you do not have to have a fire extinguisher on board your aircraft - whether it be a WCM or LSA... http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/ ... ctions.htm

So, here is your chance and lets be real about this. Obviously there shall be those that will say they would prefer not carrying any documentation but that is not going to happen. E-mail me what you would realistically be prepared to carry with you on your trips...

eg.

WCM : Copy of ATF, Copy of pilot licence, flight folio and a minimalistic first aid kit (storage & weight?)
CCM's, LSA & Gyros : Copy of ATF, Copy of pilot licence, flight folio and a first aid kit. A small powder fire extinguisher (but not compulsory)

comms@misasa.org

[Dusty Eagle]

" A certified copy is valid as long as the original is valid "

I have always understood this to be the case. The 3 months validity probably comes from other sectors such as a local municipality's vehicle licencing depeartment.

I have been turned away there, and elsewhere, because my certified copy is more than 3 months old and deemed to have " lapsed "
It is useless to try and argue with the little dictator behind the glass window

[John Boucher]

Ja Nico... a little bit of useless knowledge can be serious stuff in the hands of the "self appointed little dictator"!!!!

It's like when one was allowed into the courts - NO CAMERAS and then one was allowed to enter with a cellphone that possibly has a camera with high end rendering... so ironic!!! I also find that some inspectors do have a tendency to "interpret" the laws as they see fit and know of one specific gent that has bumped his head a couple of times when pointed out he does not know the law all that well! But he is in a position of authority and uses this to "bully" instead of trying to assist the pilot to voluntarily comply (within reason)