African Pilot, Aeroclub and us "thugs" (NOT)

[kloot piloot]

Very valid and fresh view you have there Dobbs !

Amongst lots of questions, one was raised at the AGM whether AeCSA membership is compulsory.

The answer was NO.

"BUT, but, but, but ... if your AP/AMO is not an AeCSA member, then his signature on your inspection list is not valid". This is the item I deem as unconstitutional !

Therefor, (now RAASA gets involved), RAASA cannot issue you with your ATF (who decided that my AP must be a AeCSA member if RAASA handles ATF's on behalve of CAA ?).

SAHPA (hang gliders, PG's and PPG's) and RC's don't have AMO's, yet are/have to be members of (ineffecient) AeCSA

What needs to happen is:

RAASA becomes exclusive to licensing as delegated by CAA.
AeCSA becomes exlusive to members interest and rights, e.g. airspace, transponders etc., but independent from CAA and RAASA. Purely a body representing interests of GA. But so does AOPA. So does MISASA, so does SAHPA.

Yuk, rather confusing ...

And all I wanted was to fly open skies in Africa with basically a yearly aerie inspection, health check and flying license with one logbook ...

[Bundy]

He said, she said, they said, we said....

I hope my fellow pilots are sitting up and taking note of how much co operation and respect there is for each other in the world of GA...
It's amazing what comes out of the wood work when you start throwing sh!t around.

Seeing as though they recieved a special mention at the AGM....the "Boertjies" have a saying gents....

"Jy is soos n wolf in skaapsklere"

I personally do not think that either of you give a rats arse about recreational aviation. I sincerely hope your future conduct will prove me wrong? In working together towards a "common goal" there has to first be the willingness to do so.

[Tumbleweed]

And what is the purpose of a glossy yearbook again?

Cut this and the annual back slapping ball ceremony and we should only be taxed around a hundred bucks for our A.T.F.

[Lone Ranger]

Hi Dobbs,

I hear and respect your views, however we must remember the aero club will and cannot die, as it is part of a worldwide network of aero clubs, one in every country, falling under the umbrella of the fai. All national and international competitions, national and international records, are getting overseen and sanctioned by this network of aero clubs, which assures compliance to sporting codes. You may say who cares, but there are many sections of the aero club which are virtually entirely made up of competitors, even microlighting has got a proud history of international sporting and records achievements.

Ga and sports aviation are under daily attacks, new legislations, upgrades around airspace, equipment, medicals, weather, public perception and general bickering. As all the various section are functioning with volunteers, it is impossible to put out all the fires, hence the reason of employing combined a highly qualified, well spoken and respected general manager/spokesperson/representative from within our organizations, which unfortunately does not come cheap. Being the representative of four thousand paid up members definitely makes an impact.

Hope this will give you some new food for your thoughts.

Regards,
Robert Gassmann

[John Boucher]

Before this thread degenerates into an AVCOM like bashing system and our mods have to intervene, to AF & GL. There's no sky god status on microlighters.co.za or in the microlighting fraternity. We don't care who you are, your social status, what you own or how many hours you have etc. it means bull twang to chaps here. The personal vendettas between the two of you (or others) are are legendary and quite frankly something that has no place on this forum. I have to agree with Bundy... he said, she said, blah, blah. That both of you never saw the relevance of of microlighting or this forum for that matter, thus speaks for itself. Bury the hatchets chaps so that we can respect you... but if aren't going to reciprocate then you have both witnessed what happens...

@ DOBBS
AOPA was not present or represented at our meeting. Note that it was a high level one. As for their leadership and one person in particular, I have my reservations and not the place to discuss now. If they would operate and function in the same manner as their USA counterparts, then I'd say yes but it still reeks of a "rich boys club" However, in the USA, they mainly represent the "bliks" or GA. The EAA fraternity there represents well, the same as here with the addition of the microlights & gyros. Two very distinct sectors! Alan referred to the first item as a personal one yet then highlighted the critical item which is self explanatory. The AeroclubSA card system was a total balls up. An alternative and more effective solution was decided upon in the form of a licence book insert which is more practical. Send me your details in a PM with your e-mail address so that I can e-mail you the licence book insert.

Valid points are been made and obviously these are items that need to be addressed. Legislation does however prescribe as to having to belong to a representative body. This was never really enforced but with CAA not particularly interested in us, they have "moved" the responsibility over to RAASA & the ARO's. ARO's are awarded with that purpose in mind to be self regulating or administrative. With MISASA achieving that status, it then basically just kicks in. Well that is my opinion at least.

Robert has such a way with words and appreciate his input and explanations. It does add clarity!

As for the Aeroclub Awards ceremony, MISASA is not attending. We had nominated a person and this was rejected because "posthumous awards" are not given for recognition of your contribution to aviation even though you lost your life by assisting your fellow countrymen. We therefore decided to have our own award ceremony at Tedderfield where the feathers and the wally's will be dished out and in the presence of our own...

[Athol Terence]

Well said Robert. As John says you have a way with words. However, let me remind everyone that it was Robert, together with Stan Oliver and several others who saved the Aero Club from bankruptcy all those years ago after the previous 'director general' had fleeced the AeCSA of its members funds. Robert was very much part of the turnaround strategy that successfully placed the AeCSA back into the black. It was also largely the MISASA section that assisted with the funding for this exercise - thanks Robert and your fellow AeCSA members at that time.

Where do we go from here? I hear what John has to say and I agree with him that there is no need to flog a dead subject, but we should look forward to creating better relationships in the future. The December edition of African Pilot will be featuring ALL the sections of the AeCSA and MISASA is one of the most prominent sections. My discussions with Alan Mac have been fruitful in that we will feature the Tedderfield 'Shoot Out' as well as the recent Africa Cup that Willie covered for AP.

The AeCSA's year book has more time and we will work with John and Alan to make this work for MISASA. However, if any of you have ideas and pictures please send these to me so that if possible I can integrate your work into the MISASA report. On behalf of African Pilot I pledge myself to provide the best possible platform for ALL the sections of the AeCSA and this most definitely includes MISASA. Good luck with the wedding Alan.

Regards,
Athol Terence

[Dobbs]

Thanks Robert, you certainly have enlightened me - see what happens when you throw a stone in the water

So I suppose one question is - with all the resources we have, including the Aero Club and many others, how do we best make the system work for us, as opposed to complying with a mal functioning system - and this I assume is just what the likes of Alan et al are doing - well done, you have my support

Hi John, I am well aware of some of the personalities involved in AOPA, and I agree with your sentiment, but that also is not necessarily an insurmountable problem - but anyway, I am glad I asked the questions, I am certainly the wiser and will continue to support MISASA.

After more than a week of sh*t weather, I am getting withdrawal symptoms, and am going to fly the cabbage patch

[John Boucher]

Stunning that we are all on the same page...

PM me your details DOBBS....

[Guy Leitch]

The funny thing is my first post was not critical about Athol it was about the Aeroclub - but he chose to respond with his usual toxic outpourings - you should see the poison he has sent me in an email.

Athol has posted many lies and his usual damaging half-truths on microlighters about me that i will not respond to. However he claims that I have said microlighters are "sub aviators" and yet in personal correspondence can offer no proof of this. I strongly deny i said this as i don't think that at all - in fact unlike him i have flown trikes extensively.
And if he denies he said the following - which is very much his style - then who did?

"One major gripe I had with the event is the blatant lack of discipline that exists among the microlight community. I was appalled at the people walking around among aircraft with engines running. I also spoke to a bunch of weight-shift thugs about the blatant disregard for the regulations about smoking among aircraft. I got a lot of lip from some arrogant fool. When I reacted with serious authority, they just dropped their burning cigarettes on the ground. When I turned away, I glanced back and they had simply picked up their burning fags and carried on smoking. Why do so many of them crash - simple, a lack of respect for the regulations that are there to protect them from their own stupidity."

Guys and gals - don't let yourself be fooled by the Athole as Aeroclub has been. "Athol is the Julius Malema of aviation."

Over and out.

[Lone Ranger]

Hi Athol,

Thanks for the nice words, but Ii have to put the boot in as you unwittingly raised another major issue, naimly the lack of understanding on the dynamics of microlighting and general sports aviation in general.
You do not mention names. Here we rely on each other, unlike our "big brothers", who go to the hangar and "donner" individually with 200 miles down to Durban. We rely on each other to get there. The guy who makes the coffee in Villiers, the girl who brings the petrol in Harrismith, the farmer where we land in Escourt, the Misasa committee, the guy with the funny comments on microlighters, they have got no names, but they are the heroes, and we could not do withiut them. So, you crap on one's battery, you get the whole swarm!

Regards,
Robert

[Playboy]

Very valid and fresh view you have there Dobbs !

Amongst lots of questions, one was raised at the AGM whether AeCSA membership is compulsory.

The answer was NO.

"BUT, but, but, but ... if your AP/AMO is not an AeCSA member, then his signature on your inspection list is not valid". This is the item I deem as unconstitutional !

Therefor, (now RAASA gets involved), RAASA cannot issue you with your ATF (who decided that my AP must be a AeCSA member if RAASA handles ATF's on behalve of CAA ?).

SAHPA (hang gliders, PG's and PPG's) and RC's don't have AMO's, yet are/have to be members of (ineffecient) AeCSA

What needs to happen is:

RAASA becomes exclusive to licensing as delegated by CAA.
AeCSA becomes exlusive to members interest and rights, e.g. airspace, transponders etc., but independent from CAA and RAASA. Purely a body representing interests of GA. But so does AOPA. So does MISASA, so does SAHPA.

Yuk, rather confusing ...

And all I wanted was to fly open skies in Africa with basically a yearly aerie inspection, health check and flying license with one logbook ...

Hi Guys

Please clarify the issue on the Aero Club Fees!? As per the above quote Aero Club Menbership is not compulsory!! I am due for MISSASA and (only if I have to..Aero Club) membership.

Reading all the quotes in this thred, it seems like quite a few people are really P#%ed off with Aero Club SA!!

Please advise guys

Brendan

[John Boucher]

Brendan...

You cannot belong to the one without the other... therefore AEROCLUB a must and then the relevant sub-section/s. In your case - Aeroclub & MISASA

[Playboy]

Amongst lots of questions, one was raised at the AGM whether AeCSA membership is compulsory.

The answer was NO. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[John Boucher]

I think the relevant question was with reference to the ATF of an aircraft and AP?

[Playboy]

Thanks John....the way it was stated in Kloots post is still confusing tho!!??
Microlighting is becoming a joke..think I must go back to GA!! Had none of this S#it there!!