Gents
I would like to make a suggestion to those who give instruction - get your student to do some low level flying, educate them on the potential dangers, CFIT, how to cross power lines, what to look out for in valley's, show them the suspension wires at the top of the pylons (the ones no one sees), educate them on planning, mountain waves, windshear - I could go on.......but if these traps and pitfalls are shown, at least they've been exposed because when they're set free you can be guaranteed that that ex-student will fly low level at sometime or another. Even flying at 500' can get someone into the dwang!!
Pierre, I like your post - why not make it mandatory, for the next 2 years, that those who are having to do a renewal check, get the instructor to discuss these dangers and traps and have them do some low level flying - make the instructors present this as a module - it can be discussed at the next upcoming seminar. If RAASA can put together Power point slide show of all the potential dangers and requirements that one must comply with for low level flying and have this linked on the RAASA website. A pilot coming up for his license renewal must have gone through the module, by accessing it with his license number, before he can do his renewal - so he does some theory and then some low level flying during the check. That person will now be someone who has been educated in low level flying from a standard set by RAASA as oppose to hearing some hangar talk from his buddies.
I'm open for comments
RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
-
- Signed up at flight school
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:47 pm
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
Ah...the endless debate around Low Flying.
A complicated subject with no easy solution, and very difficult to police/control. Low flying IS and WILL ALWAYS be dangerous, a fact that even those who take part in it will not dispute. I do not think it should be outlawed or banned but I do think as some have suggested here that there is not nearly enough understanding of the potential pitfalls associated with it. I do believe the training sylabus would be strengthened with a specific "low flying" excercise.
I do not think that there should be severe penalties for a 1st time offender, a reprimand and warning are sufficient "punishment", and I believe this will also give the benefit of the doubt to responsible pilots who may have been accused of doing so by undeducated members of Joe Public who as we know cannot judge height at all.
What cannot be denied though is the fact that amongst us there were/are complete mavericks and cowboys who regularly fly in a completely irresponsible and unacceptable way and are a danger to themselves and everyone else. They are also the cause of the unfortunate label we carry as NPL pilots. In my opinion, it is these pilot types that we need to get rid of, before they rid the world of themselves or somebody else. Like they say, "Anybody can become a pilot, but not everyone deserves to be a pilot".
The Law relating to Minumum heights is about as vague as a horroscope and does nothing to protect either the pilot, PAX, or anyone on the ground. Low flying as it currenly stands, is not illegal outside of built up areas, Nature reserves...etc, depending on how you "interperet" it. For Instance: I decide to do a low level sweep of a nice open flat field. I check for wires/possible hazards BEFORE, as well as wind direction, ground condition (direction of plough troughs) etc. Lekker, in I go and after an uneventful low fly I climb and bugger off.... A couple day's later CAA gives me a call and tells me I have a complaint against me for Low flying. You see, what me as the pilot didnt know was that half a mile away lives "Joe Soap" who was rudely awoken by the sound of my Rattex and I have now been causing a "nuisance"...therefore my flight is illegal
I've said it before... the Law needs to be clearly defined and guidelines for low flying must be written in plain English
Bottom line is, the mavericks must go, and we must fly responsibly at all times.
I welcome the Panel that will be set up at RAASA for disciplinary issues. I especially like that two representatives from the relevant pilots Sub Section will be on the panel as well. Let pilots be judged by their peers...and let repeat offenders know that their day's of enjoying the priveledge of flying...are numbered.
A complicated subject with no easy solution, and very difficult to police/control. Low flying IS and WILL ALWAYS be dangerous, a fact that even those who take part in it will not dispute. I do not think it should be outlawed or banned but I do think as some have suggested here that there is not nearly enough understanding of the potential pitfalls associated with it. I do believe the training sylabus would be strengthened with a specific "low flying" excercise.
I do not think that there should be severe penalties for a 1st time offender, a reprimand and warning are sufficient "punishment", and I believe this will also give the benefit of the doubt to responsible pilots who may have been accused of doing so by undeducated members of Joe Public who as we know cannot judge height at all.

The Law relating to Minumum heights is about as vague as a horroscope and does nothing to protect either the pilot, PAX, or anyone on the ground. Low flying as it currenly stands, is not illegal outside of built up areas, Nature reserves...etc, depending on how you "interperet" it. For Instance: I decide to do a low level sweep of a nice open flat field. I check for wires/possible hazards BEFORE, as well as wind direction, ground condition (direction of plough troughs) etc. Lekker, in I go and after an uneventful low fly I climb and bugger off.... A couple day's later CAA gives me a call and tells me I have a complaint against me for Low flying. You see, what me as the pilot didnt know was that half a mile away lives "Joe Soap" who was rudely awoken by the sound of my Rattex and I have now been causing a "nuisance"...therefore my flight is illegal

I've said it before... the Law needs to be clearly defined and guidelines for low flying must be written in plain English

Bottom line is, the mavericks must go, and we must fly responsibly at all times.
I welcome the Panel that will be set up at RAASA for disciplinary issues. I especially like that two representatives from the relevant pilots Sub Section will be on the panel as well. Let pilots be judged by their peers...and let repeat offenders know that their day's of enjoying the priveledge of flying...are numbered.

Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
I am scared of heights. 500ft means I will have to stop flying.................
On a serious note, low flying has a degree of danger but I feel it can be done in a safe responsible manner. Punishing all pilots for the errors of a few is ridiculous. I like flying at twice the height of high tension power lines and I feel that it is safe, unless I do not know the area or it is built up. Where are the days of flying to Parys or Groblersdal with just a map! Please carry a GPS to prove that you were never below 500ft in case some idiot got out of bed with the wrong foot and feels that you are flying to low!!!!. This is ridiculous, you are destroying our sport!!!!!!! Guns are dangerous but can be handled in a safe manner. Why don't we bad all guns because some people commit suicide!!!!! This is a joke!
On a serious note, low flying has a degree of danger but I feel it can be done in a safe responsible manner. Punishing all pilots for the errors of a few is ridiculous. I like flying at twice the height of high tension power lines and I feel that it is safe, unless I do not know the area or it is built up. Where are the days of flying to Parys or Groblersdal with just a map! Please carry a GPS to prove that you were never below 500ft in case some idiot got out of bed with the wrong foot and feels that you are flying to low!!!!. This is ridiculous, you are destroying our sport!!!!!!! Guns are dangerous but can be handled in a safe manner. Why don't we bad all guns because some people commit suicide!!!!! This is a joke!
Lower, Lower ...........
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
Splinter they have been trying to ban guns for years. We will have to fight this just as we have to fight to keep our guns! I agree about low flying and you who have been down here will understand how precious low flying is to us along the Wild Coast!
Regards
Bryan


Regards
Bryan
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
I agree 100%
- Tumbleweed
- Toooooo Thousand
- Posts: 2349
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:14 pm
- Location: FASC
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
I think Bush Pilot is on the right track. Education is the only way.
Maybe the authorities can make a comprehensive CD and highlight visual effects and dangers of low flying, mountain flying, human performance, descisions around bad weather alternatives not given by the weather office e.t.c. and distribute it to the clubs/ members Instead of caps.
I think the experience of doing an extensive terrain changing cross country is priceless and don't see the annual event arranged by Mervyn anymore. A 2 hour round trip returning to base in the same weather pattern does'nt qualify.
Flying with high milers communicating as they're gaining height, warning of wind shear and effects of a cross wind blasting through certain sections of trees at a strange bush strip without a windsock as they land just before you is priceless.
Maybe if they show the invisible wires in a new terrain and sudden mountain waves over flat country we might get a new perspective.
The problem is you're on super alert mode doing these trips and its the complacency around the extended patch where the issues tend to show themselves.
Maybe the authorities can make a comprehensive CD and highlight visual effects and dangers of low flying, mountain flying, human performance, descisions around bad weather alternatives not given by the weather office e.t.c. and distribute it to the clubs/ members Instead of caps.
I think the experience of doing an extensive terrain changing cross country is priceless and don't see the annual event arranged by Mervyn anymore. A 2 hour round trip returning to base in the same weather pattern does'nt qualify.
Flying with high milers communicating as they're gaining height, warning of wind shear and effects of a cross wind blasting through certain sections of trees at a strange bush strip without a windsock as they land just before you is priceless.
Maybe if they show the invisible wires in a new terrain and sudden mountain waves over flat country we might get a new perspective.
The problem is you're on super alert mode doing these trips and its the complacency around the extended patch where the issues tend to show themselves.
Sling ZU FYE - For Your Entertainment
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
Please see my post about "putting it out there".. I dont have a problem with low flying in an uninhabited enironment, but when it is low level flying, and over a very densely populated area, then that is plainly irresponsible.
ZU-DODO
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
Whilst there is no harm in education its not the solution here.
The "hooligan, maverick, seat of the pants" type of flyer cannot be educated because he has an attidude problem.
You do get the responsible pilot who is aware of the risks but makes a mistake. Unfortunately unless you ban all flight below a certain level we will always have some accidents but this is "normal", just like car accidents etc.
Its the hooligan pilots that are causing the damage.
I agree with the self regulation. Those guys need to stop feeling like they are "big deals" but peer or "Pierre pressure"
should make them feel like they are dickheads........or stop them flying!
The "hooligan, maverick, seat of the pants" type of flyer cannot be educated because he has an attidude problem.
You do get the responsible pilot who is aware of the risks but makes a mistake. Unfortunately unless you ban all flight below a certain level we will always have some accidents but this is "normal", just like car accidents etc.
Its the hooligan pilots that are causing the damage.
I agree with the self regulation. Those guys need to stop feeling like they are "big deals" but peer or "Pierre pressure"

Parasitic Drag: A pilot who bums a ride and complains about the service.
ZU - forePLaY
ZU - forePLaY
- John Boucher
- The Big Four K
- Posts: 4329
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:23 pm
- Location: Dana Bay, Western Cape South Africa
- Contact:
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
The message that's going out is that MISASA & SAGPA as ARO's and EAA (with RAASA & CAA) are serious about DISCIPLINE & SAFETY... and what is heart warming is that it is being received positively!


John Boucher
MISASA Chairman 2023
jb.brokers@gmail.com
chairman@misasa.org
A Bushcat is Born - CH 211 C "Super Excited"
MISASA Chairman 2023
jb.brokers@gmail.com
chairman@misasa.org
A Bushcat is Born - CH 211 C "Super Excited"

-
- Signed up at flight school
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:47 pm
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
Gents
You can regulate the industry as much as possible, you'll still get the maveric who stuffs it up for all and sundry. If someone is reported you'll still end up with conflicting opinions!
In order to stop people killing themselves we need to educate the masses and it needs to start soon. There's a lot of talk and opinions raised on this forum but no much action ever takes place!
Personally, I would like to see LSA, microlights and gyro's improve achieve a 100% safety record - we can do this through training and education.
You can regulate the industry as much as possible, you'll still get the maveric who stuffs it up for all and sundry. If someone is reported you'll still end up with conflicting opinions!
In order to stop people killing themselves we need to educate the masses and it needs to start soon. There's a lot of talk and opinions raised on this forum but no much action ever takes place!
Personally, I would like to see LSA, microlights and gyro's improve achieve a 100% safety record - we can do this through training and education.
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
The problem is, most of the line strikes were in uninhabited areas. Flying low is dangerous, especially if you don't know the area.Alkemac wrote:Please see my post about "putting it out there".. I dont have a problem with low flying in an uninhabited enironment, but when it is low level flying, and over a very densely populated area, then that is plainly irresponsible.
This all started not out of complaints of nuisance flying or flying over built up areas low, but rather about hitting lines due to low level flying, and I think the point of RAASA's stance on this is sadly being missed

Plane-less
- John Boucher
- The Big Four K
- Posts: 4329
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:23 pm
- Location: Dana Bay, Western Cape South Africa
- Contact:
Re: RAASA STATEMENT - LOW FLYING
Power Lines & Telephone lines is "property" .... it belongs to someone - whether it is Eskom, Telkom, Regional or Local Municipality or even farmers that have paid for their services or lines....flight can be conducted without being a nuisance or danger to person (for the dof people, that includes you and your pax sir!) or property.
John Boucher
MISASA Chairman 2023
jb.brokers@gmail.com
chairman@misasa.org
A Bushcat is Born - CH 211 C "Super Excited"
MISASA Chairman 2023
jb.brokers@gmail.com
chairman@misasa.org
A Bushcat is Born - CH 211 C "Super Excited"

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests