Alternative Engines for Trike?

[Beefmaster]

Hi Guys,

I am wondering what it entails to change your trike from the conventional rotax 503 or 582 to something a little cheaper to run, like a BMW/Suzuki/HKS?? I notice some of you guys do run these engines on your trikes, if you could let me know if this is possible without waiting 22 years for the CAA to approve. The reason I ask is because I want to buy a trike, but I'm on the heavyweight end of the spectrum, so need lots of power. Rotax 582 has enough to get me skywards, but i'm not keen on the TBO, and fuel consumption. Doesnt seem worthwhile considering how much you have to spend to keep it flying.

I had a look at the G13 and G10 engines from Suzuki, seem pretty good, high power, relatively light weight, LOW fuel consumption but most of all: 4-stroke (no 2-str oil - F*** you Gadaffi) and at least 1000hrs TBO. Think it should be a good reliable engine, and parts easily available from Japan at low cost.

Also, can you say for instance, put a 100hp motor on a Windlass?? Or Cosmos?? Or are there limits as to what the frame can handle?

Sorry for my ignorance, not even a pilot yet, let alone aerie owner!!

[nicow]

What about the Toyota Yaris-it is approved.

[Beefmaster]

Definitely an option, however wont the BMW or Suzuki bike engines be lighter?? I'm already a heavyweight, dont wanna make my aerie a heavy too!!

Will go check it out anyway.... Nico do you know how to go about it, or do you just take your rotax off and pop the yaris on??

[nicow]

Phone Jaco,he is the owner of the trike with the Yaris motor.
07two 0202244.

[bryan]

I am speaking from personal experience. Go and lose weight ..... no joke...... changing engines is an expensive exercise, time consuming and a frustrating thing with CAA. Cost of Suzuki with gearbox is R50000 and that is excluding shipping or other taxes.[plus labour and AP assistance] A trike wing can only pick up what it is designed to do and no amount of power is going to change that. Remember the altitude you are flying from and the weight of your instructor plus fuel and do the maths. I had to lose 25 kilos to learn to fly. Been there got the T shirt. Do not let any body bullshit you. No pain no gain
Regards
Bryan ZU BFR

[Nacho]

I bought a BMW machine now. There are dozens of these flying around in Europe. I spoke to Johan last weekend aty the Kroon Fly Inn, he showed me his BMW prop, gearbox and wiring harness and the computer box. All professionally manufactured from Europe. Our CAA are sleg I know, but I am sure they are getting some pressure from guys like Trevor, Johan and the rest of the aviation community to start doing their jobs.

Hang in there, I am sure we are not 20 yrs away anymore. I had a chat to Oupa a few weeks ago, he told me he hasn't encountered a more reliable machine than the BMW1200. With these type of industry leaders working on this project, its just a matter of time. Imagine the power of that 105 horses behind you...

[Beefmaster]

I know this is what I say too! Why pay hundreds of thousands for a 912, when you can get BMW quality, higher power, lower price, better consumption etc etc. I'll wait it out a bit longer then until we have something concrete. I saw on the european websites that they have lots of bmw's in the skies, seems perfect as a solution to the common problems we have down here. How does this work though? Does the CAA approve the engine for use on one specific frame with specific wing, or will they give the freedom to put the motor on anything that can handle the power?? Because if they only approve it for say the Aquilla, wont help me much, will just reduce my useful load, so i'll have to fly without pax!

I sent Oupa a pm as well, will hear what he says

Thanks!!

[Nacho]

As we mount them to different aircrafts, it will be flown for a proving flight period, typical 40 hrs and after that I assume that aircraft will be rated for a BMW ready (certified) and the next guy mounting it to his aircraft will also need to do the proving flight period. There will be certain aircraft out there that will not be able to handle the power, weight etc.

The Cobra hosting the Yaris motor was also not designed for it, when it was initially developed, but they went through the process and now it is approved. This means if I mount a Yaris motor to my Cobra now and I use the CAA approved mounts etc, it will be accepted after the proving flight period.

Or this is how I assume it will work.

[Oupa-G]

We have combined in two trikes now in the excess of 500 hrs not completely without hassles but we are solving them as we go along. Proper design of the engine mount is paramount and not always easy. The Thunderbird project is very interesting.

The combination of engine airframe and propeller is a bit like a musical instrument, not always easy to do. An engine prop combination on one aircraft will not necessary work on another aeroplane.

That is why the EAA calling it Experimental is such a good name. I have just had a problem on my trike after 300hrs so the 40hrs is the bare minimum. I'm also not so sure that people do honest reporting I have reported all our problems and informed other BMW owners.

Cheers Oupa-G

[SkySketch]

Branco Corner and Klaus Knupp each have BMW motors on their trikes (Swakopmund Namibia). The motor runs sweet, but they are constantly having problems with the gearbox (Slipper Clutch). Besides that, I absolutely love the BMW and think the fellow Germans can start purposely manufacturing it for Aircraft use. The UL260i is just too expensive, albeit still a wonderful motor.

[Oupa-G]

The gearbox is not without problems I will contact Branco so that we can pool our problems and find a solution. I have already addressed some of them.

Cheers Oupa-G

[kloot piloot]

Skysketch and Oupa-G,
Are Branco and Claus running the Take-Off gearboxes/conversion from Germany, or is it another conversion ?
Roel

[SkySketch]

German gearboxes...

Remember having a good chuckle about the translation in the manual

"Tighten the mothers" In German we call a Nut eine Mutter, which is also a mother

[smallfly]

Makes sense MUTTER = MOER = MOEDER !

Maak styf vas daai moeder !!

[ZULU1]

Oupa G, the foundry thats very close to us actually specialises in gearbox bell housings for AC Cobras, Birkin sevens and similar kit products as well as turbo manifolds to suit Alpine Toyota conversions and so on. If you get so much aggro why not just make one ? We have our friends at Adept Engines in Durban who did just that ? They would probably be able to help out. It would certainly drop the local price of a trike conversion by a serious amount as the rest is locally made in any event except the raw motor which would probably be the cheapest bit.

Paul