TAKING OFF PROCEDURES !!

[Chaz]

Heya Folks

I will probably be sticking me head into a "hornets nest" here but then again this is i do believe is a debatable subject.

In all the training i received namely "taking off" i was always trained to keep the bar in neutral to reduce drag and therefore increase ground speed so that on "lift-off" the ideal "airspeed" is reached and maintained.

I flew out to a Airfield the other day and had landed there. While standing around i noticed a student being put through the paces and on each take off i noticed that the bar was extended in the full forward postion. What was also noticeable was that it seemed the trike reaches a stall point, descends a bit and the bar is then pulled back alltogether to get more airspeed and then a gradual climb out is done.

MY here is :- IS THAT GOOD PRACTICE OR IS IT ACCEPTABLE

I might add that the runways were of sufficient length but on each take off, as i said i noticed the bar in the full forward position. I have never in any form of aviation noticed any aircraft with flaps up on starting the roll. Ive always believed that "The Principles of Flight" applys to everyone wether you are flying a 747 or a Microlight. Surely on "take off" one would want to induce as little drag as is humanly possible.

I would like to hear some opinions from my fellow micro-lighters about this.

Your's in Flying
CHAZ

[Morph]

Chaz,

Nice to see you back in the air :D

is it not possible that he was being trained on short field take offs. On 3-axis you hold the joystick fully back, i.e. the elevators in the max up position. This will get you off the ground as soon as the wing has sufficient lift. You must then immediately neutralise the joystick and use ground effect to build up speed to the best rate of climb speed and then you can begin the climb out.

[balstring]

as long as you're in air before the runway ends, every thing is fine!

[Cloud Warrior]

Some of the guys here in Aussie take off like that - bar hard up against the profile tube. Crapped myself the first time as a passenger when I saw it done but I have seen American manuals where that method is taught. Once we got into the air, it seemed to me that it then took longer to get full control of the aircraft - we wobbled around a lot. Might have been turbulence though - it was late in the morning already.

[Duck Rogers]

I fly 3-axis so can't comment on the trike bit, but common sense tells me it doesn't seem right. I also don't hold full up elevator on take off run in a 3-axis.
I was taught neutral elevator until rotation speed is reached. Makes far more sense to me. You get to flying speed quicker that way. Even for a short field take off, as I don't have flaps to assist, I want to get to flying speed as soon as possible. No point in "hanging it on the nose" after take off.

Duck Rogers

PS: It will be interesting to see what comes out of these posts :D

[Morph]

I fly 3-axis so can't comment on the trike bit, but common sense tells me it doesn't seem right. I also don't hold full up elevator on take off run in a 3-axis.

I don't use this as the normal process process for taking off. But this technique is used to get the plane off the ground as quickly as possible if it is very rough etc. Once off and you neutralise the stick the plane will rapidly accelerate since there is no rolling resistance. For example, my normal rotation speed is 60Mph, using this technique I am off the ground at 50mph, but you must remain in ground effect until the speed builds up. It works

[Smiley]

Short take-off mambo jumbo!!!

Alot of instructors are teaching their student to take-off that way. To my opinion and alot of experienced pilots, this is completely wrong.

To fly you need airspeed, airspeed is money in the bank on take-off and landing. When that bar is pushed forward fully on take-off the moment you leave the ground is the point where you just went pass the stall speed. So this plane is taking-off almost falling out of the sky.

The problem being, on a nice perfect wind and weather take-off day you can do this and nothing will come of it, but if the wind is cross and there is thermal activilty, so that you need to fly this baby out, you can get to a point with a bit of wing fighting to keep the aerie straight on take-off that you loose airspeed and being so slow already, you can stall the plane!!

Trust me, make sure you have more than enought speed on take-off and landings and you will not fall out of the sky.

On take-off pull that bar in completely. This way the wing will be just about neutral so that there is little wing resistance, the trike will pick-up speed quicker on the runway and your climb out will be better because of good airspeed reached on the ground.

[C205]

I was taught to keep the bar neutral until you reach flying speed (wind in the face) and then push out and rotate. Just after take-off come back slightly on the bar so as not to climb out too steep.
Tried to cheat once by keeping the bar out just as I started the take-off roll and was told very smartly by my instructor not to do that again.
What if a donkey quits on take-off and you're already hanging on the stall? I would hate to be in that position.

[Morph]

Smiley,

you obviously are very passionate about this. This is not a post as to how you should normally and safely take off, it is a post questioning the validity/purpose of this technique. As you mentioned a lot of instructors are doing this, Why , because it is bullsh!t or because there is a valid reason for it.

Let's all learn something here

[Wart]

Well I am glad to report that I have never been taught this "technique".

What I have been taught is full throttle, feel the wing starting to fly (this I find the most important because it then that you learn the feeling rather than the "numbers"), once the wing is flying ease the bar forward; as soon as the trike takes off ease the bar back to the neutral position and use the full throttle to give you power to get height.

My 2c

[kb]

I find that to increase the airspeed quicker, and reduce drag (helpfull on beach landings), I pull the bar against my chest for the first part of the run up, then ease it forwarrd to neutral, then fly.

[IFLYHI]

As the T-Bird is heavy on the front wheel, on rough terrain, this is acceptable/best practise to get the weight of the front wheel as quick as possible
Once the main gear leaves the ground push the nose down and accelerate for best climb speed.
So even if the ponies disappear the moment the main gear leaves the ground you will be in the right attitude to just flare and land if they quite 1 m above ground the nose is already lowered and land normal (provided there is enough distance left )

[Tailspin]

I was taught with the words " Push Pull and FLY" this entails that i push the bar forward till the nose wheel lifts off then i pull the bar in and the rear wheels bumb once or twice and the trike picks up speed quickly and i hold the bar just back from neutral and this gets me outa any field with enough climb and speed that if the RATTTEX quits i can jump the fence and touch down after. On 3 axis i do something similar getting the wheels off ASAP and then staying in ground effect like Morph said.

Been good for me so far

[Smiley]

Smiley,

you obviously are very passionate about this. This is not a post as to how you should normally and safely take off, it is a post questioning the validity/purpose of this technique.

Let's all learn something here

Hello Morph

True true, but lets not just talk about where and when to use it and for what reason, but also where not and when not to use it. Every action has a reaction!!

[velocity]