Gyro Flying and Life Insurance

[Jabbanaught]

Hi Guys

I know that the topic has been dealt with , But i managed to get the underwriters to give me the opportunity to forward the stats for SA and then compare that to the world wide stats .

I want to get them to look at lowering the loading on Gyro Pilots .

Anybody that can help (learjet i know you good with this )

Regards

Paul

[Learjet]

Paul,
The SA insurance companies have had access to all the SACAA stats relating to gyros for decades. As the SACAA stats actually paint a pretty good picture when it comes to gyro safety they are conveniently ignored, or swept aside in favour of so-called and unsubstantiated "world-wide stats". You may well ask with which "world wide stats" exactly are they going to compare the local CAA stats to? When I asked L1berty to cite the source of their "stats" they couldn't or wouldn't and resorted back to subjective opinion and conjecture.
The USA probably has more gyros than the rest of the world added together but even the US NTSB accident stats data seems to be very incomplete because of the unregulated environment for single seater gyros. (no ATF or pilots license required!) There are moves afoot in the US by gyro enthusiasts to lobby the authorities to relax their "51% self-build" rule and allow factory-built gyros to be registered and imported as S-LSA (Special Light Sport Aircraft) - but in so doing, even the American FAA has acknowledged that there aren't any adequate worldwide safety stats upon which to base a decision on allowing factory built gyros into the USA. So just where the SA insurance companies get their so-called world-wide stats from is clearly an insurance industry secret. Or just plain lying through their teeth bullsh1t. You decide.. .

The bottom line is that there are too few gyro owners in SA to have any meaningful impact or effectively challenge the "take it or leave it" attitude of the insurance giants. Right now they are making a pretty penny out of grossly inflated gyro insurance loadings and will continue to conveniently turn a blind eye to the actual CAA gyro accident stats and allude to their own smoke-and-mirror stats in order to continue making nice profits.

[Jabbanaught]

Thanks DAVE

I will be keep you up to date with reards to this , I am really going to see if i can get them to change the mindset a bit .

Regards

Paul

[Learjet]

Thanks Paul. To help you avoid the same brick wall I encountered, I would suggest that you tackle them from a different angle as follows:

N.B!!! Ask the insurance company to present upfront the stats / source upon which they base their loading calculation for SA.
Then you can argue or contradict their so-called "world-wide" stats with more relevant local SACAA stats etc to substantiate your argument. I tried it the other way round and presented them with all the SACAA stats I could find relating to fatal gyros accident in SA. (Bearing in mind I was tackling a life insurance co). They simply brushed me off saying that they use "international stats" and that according to their stats "gyros are dangerous". They refused to substantiate or divulge the details of their stats or name the source so I was unable to make any comparative analysis.

[Jabbanaught]

Thanks Paul. To help you avoid the same brick wall I encountered, I would suggest that you tackle them from a different angle as follows:

N.B!!! Ask the insurance company to present upfront the stats / source upon which they base their loading calculation for SA.
Then you can argue or contradict their so-called "world-wide" stats with more relevant local SACAA stats etc to substantiate your argument. I tried it the other way round and presented them with all the SACAA stats I could find relating to fatal gyros accident in SA. (Bearing in mind I was tackling a life insurance co). They simply brushed me off saying that they use "international stats" and that according to their stats "gyros are dangerous". They refused to substantiate or divulge the details of their stats or name the source so I was unable to make any comparative analysis.

Thanks

I have already asked them to prepare the basis that they underwrite this .

I also asked that do not just tell me NO !!! , What can we as a Gyro community do tohelp them with beter underwriting for SA Spesific .

Regards

Paul

[Eggbeater]

Hi Jabi

Glad to see that you are enjoying DUO (well you seem to be judging from the photographs I have seen on the web although you should pupm up the front tyre occasionally or lose some weight ).

I was not too unhappy about the insurance for DUO when I had her and the new one I cannot comment on yet as she is insured in her hanger only.

As to what can be done, I am not an expert and will make an enquiry or two but perhaps regard should be had to the Access to Information Act and then couple this with horizontally collusive practices as per the Competitions Act.

[Jabbanaught]

Hi Jabi

Glad to see that you are enjoying DUO (well you seem to be judging from the photographs I have seen on the web although you should pupm up the front tyre occasionally or lose some weight ).

I was not too unhappy about the insurance for DUO when I had her and the new one I cannot comment on yet as she is insured in her hanger only.

As to what can be done, I am not an expert and will make an enquiry or two but perhaps regard should be had to the Access to Information Act and then couple this with horizontally collusive practices as per the Competitions Act.

Suppose i Should loose some weight

I am actually talking about Life Insurance (changed the heading )

[Eggbeater]

Hi Jabi430

I got the wrong end of the stick then. I am on a group life insurance scheme and whenever anything changes I let the insurer know that I fly gyroplanes. To date the insurer has not come back to me and I presume that they are OK with this. They had better be because in this instance I think a non-response is an acceptance of the condition.

On DUO, I dont think that you need to lose weight and it is good to see photographs of her on the web. It makes me jealous actually but, with a little luck, I will be airborne again soon (I hope).

[Jabbanaught]

Hi Jabi430

I got the wrong end of the stick then. I am on a group life insurance scheme and whenever anything changes I let the insurer know that I fly gyroplanes. To date the insurer has not come back to me and I presume that they are OK with this. They had better be because in this instance I think a non-response is an acceptance of the condition.

On DUO, I dont think that you need to lose weight and it is good to see photographs of her on the web. It makes me jealous actually but, with a little luck, I will be airborne again soon (I hope).

Normally on Group life cover they are not that concerned as you are part of a pool and thereby the group risk in underwritten .

Eggbeater she is a beaut , I love flying her and every chance i get she is in the air , From 7 Aug 2009 when i got into her the first time , i have done 84 hours in her to date.

You must come visit , Might even allow you to fly her again .

Hope you get the M24 in the air soon , You should get that lazy brother of mine to fly more !!!!!

[Jabbanaught]

HI guys i have had VERY possitive feedback from the guys i am dealing with , just a question , who at Raasa can i contact to get the exact amount of Gyro Pilots and Gyro's registered in SA?

[Vertical Tango]

Pierre preferably or Willem.