Single Seaters

[OzGyro]

Hi All

Quick question for everyone. If it were possible to import a single seat semi enclosed gyro kit into SA, including a new 912S Rotax motor for say less than R400000 would it be a seller?? This price could also be further reduced by utilising low hour, secondhand or zero timed 912S motors as well. Fixed wing aviation in this country seems very affordable with a fantastic range of both new and seconhand machines. I just can't help but think it would be possible to generate a whole new following or gyro enthusiasts if we could make entry into the sport a little more affordable. Does anybody think it could be possible or am I a little out of touch with what the market here is after.

Cheers
Darren

[t-bird]

Great idea !! Dont know if it will sell but we need a cheeper alternative.

How about this one http://www.gyroz.com.au/index.htm

[OzGyro]

Hi T-Bird

I agree a more affodable machine should surely be welcome. I am not sure if the Gyroz gyro is stll in production or not. Jeff Henley Smith the former owner sadly passed away in 2008. Jeff was also the manufacturer of the aluminium (Advanced Kinetics)rotors that are being used on some of the local Sycamores. The blade side of the business has been purchased by some guys operating out of New Zealand, from memory they are the same guys responsible for the production of the UFO Helithruster, but I am not sure if they are going to continue with the gyro side of the business or not. Maybe i'll just have to take the plunge and import the first machine and see what happens.

Cheers
Darren

[old no 7]

Hi Darren,
Just a word of caution when importing something "new" into SA.
The paperwork at CAA is going to take you half a life-time to sort out before you will get ATF.

e.g. M24, MT-0Sport, Calidus.

Regards
Glen

[t-bird]

I agree with Glen that there is a lot of red tape at the SA CAA.

If you need some help contact Johan Von Ludwig at Wagtail aviation.

Wagtail.co.za

Johan is best qualified person to speak to in South Africa.

[OzGyro]

Hi Guys

I certainly here you in regard to the licencing issues that must be faced. However I have been led to believe that if the machine is the first of its type and a kit it might be viewed a little differently. The CAA may infact deem it experimetal/homebuilt, but I belive the real fun begins when you import subsequent machines and then the whole ball game changes and they look at it as a factory built machine. Then as you guys say the real fun begins as the guys with the M24, Calidus and MTO Sport can bare testimony to. Let the research continue, thanks for your help and input guys. Will see how things progress.

Cheers
Darren

[Low Level]

Hi Darren

To answer the initial question. I definately think there is a huge demand for lower priced gyros. Unfortunately it is only the top end machines being imported at a high price. I have spoken to many people that want to fly gyros, but the price.... . A lot of guys already asked the question of importing kits, but no-one took the plunge - yet.

Two things to keep in mind . Single seater - limited, and second, make sure it will fly at altitude and high temps.

[bulldog]

The Gyroz is still available and can be sold as a kit or ready to fly.We have one that is 80% complete.It includes a BMW1150 that has been test run.Any one interested can pm me and i can send photos.It will be a frustrating,long and expensive process to get the Gyroz registered in SA.Anyone who needs ali rotors can contact me.The gyroz would be a great gyro for SA.

[OzGyro]

Hi All


Just an observation, I keep hearing that single place machines are limited. In most cases single place machines can match 2 place machines in most instances, to be honest in some areas they actually outperform 2 place gyro's. The only real restriction as I see it is they obviously are limited to just the pilot, but lets be honest how often do owners of 2 place machines fly 2 up? I have been reguarly attending airfields for the last few months and I see a lot of 2 place gyro's as well as fixed wing machines being flown or turning up with just the pilot alone. I agree in an ideal world we would all like the option of having the convenience of a 2 place machine. But in the interest of reducing costs and progression of the sport a good and affordable single place machine should surely be an attractive alternative.
Specs for the machine I have in mind are as follows -Weight <200kg, Engine Rotax 912(100Hp), Rotors 26Ft - 8"Chord.
So I think it should be capable of handling the local SA conditions. Any input/comment greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Darren

[Gyronaut]

Welcome Bulldog!

Would these rotors be the Advanced Kinetics extruded aluminium rotors? If so, hooray, I have been a big fan for years.

OzGyro, I believe there is a market for an affordable single seater judging by the number of enquiries I get. It will certainly lower the barrier to entry for many and make Gyro flying more affordable for them. Your spec seems more than adequate for a nice performer.

Make it look sexy and you will have a winner.

[gyrofan]

I know this thread is about Single seater, but I just have to give a bit of update in general. A lot of you know about Johan von Ludwig and his team at Wagtail, well this weekend I had the honour of seeing and listening to the 2.5 Subaru they are working on....I honestly think there are very few of us out there who actually understand exactly what they are working on and what they have achieved to date. On Saturday that Subaru 2.5 was hammered again through a series of tests which WILL destroy a ROTAX 914....running at max power on 3 cylinders, running as hard as it can on 2 cylinders, let it back-fire at full power, let it run at full power and cutting ignition off and back on every 0.5 seconds....and a magnitude of other tests.
The most impressive achievement is that the whole series of tests were conducted with the management system running from ONLY one magnetic pick-up, no other sensors at all..
The management system they are using is truly Mill spec Class C software approved, the only such approved system currently in existance. The thing is truly redundant with no pilot action needed in the event of sensor failures..it needs a few inputs to start the engine and there after it only needs one of 2 magnetic pick-ups to keep the engine running, no pressure sensors, no throttle sensors, no temperature, no mass-flow...nothing.

When I asked them why so, the answer was typical Johan...."every sensor is one too many, it WILL fail some day. I don't have the time to flick a switch to change ECU when I am just 100ft above the ground right after take-off, the thing must sort it self out or I am not flying it"

Now back to the single...they ( Wagtail ) have every single part we need to build an absolute stunning performer, they have the rotors ( both composite and extruded Al, everthing from 28 - 35 ft )
They have the rotor head and pre-rotator,
now they have engines with CAA accepted dual redundant management systems.
I have talked to Johan about a single for some time now and he has a great design in his head with a mock-up of the frame standing outside the hanger. The plan is that she must be able to run along with the MT and ELA's as far as speed is concerned, she must have endurance of 5 hours plus reserves and she must be able to carry 25kg of luggage, both weigt and volume...
Johan's idea is to use the 2.5 and just build a "big" single seater with tremendous power to weight ratio.

I saw the next generation Kriek there as well, it is being rigged with the Subaru 2.5 and the "lines" look a lot better than the current Kriek...I know Johan is not really after "looks" but thank goodness there are some of his team mates who have a bit of appreciation for "looks"....

What we now need is a "deligation" from SAGPA to go and ask them politely if they cannot assemble a single for us as well.....I will club in and help make a "good looking" fuselage for the baby...

If you have time, pop in on a Saturday, you will be surprised..they are not working but they do love to talk "gyro" when somebody starts chatting.....

[bulldog]

In my mind a single seater must be light and manouvarable-look at the sportcopter,dominator,ross symes,aviomania,magni m-18(just a couple that come to mind).As soon as you use a heavy,powerfull engine you may as well design a 2 seater-why a heavy ,big single seater?Single seat gyros are easier to design-keep it simple,affordable,safe and fun.

[saraf]

What RAF SA is busy with.....

Enjoy

[saraf]

enjoy

[bulldog]

Hi Eben.Looks great-could you tell us some more-ie weight,Hp,expected price etc.Great to see and hear so many great things happening in experimental aviation in SA.