OK, so what happened??

[Nkwazi]

My mate does a lot of sailing at the vaal and he says that you can be sitting in calm conditions and suddenly a gust comes from nowhere and surprises you. I've landed at that particular runway a few times before and vowed never to land there if the wind was blowing more than 5 knots because there is very little margin for error with a lot of rocks on both sides of the runway. Because the conditions were calm I saw no problems until that unseen gust. Must have been a wingtip stall and just not enough height to recover. Some people say that if you take off with bar fully forward you will feel the gust and be able to take corrective action. I would certainly prefer to have speed at rotation. I think if the gust had hit at say 5 meters off the ground the correction would have been possible before hitting the ground again. I just cant see what I could've done differently

[Thatchman]

Tumbleweed, the accident was on Sunday not saturday. get with the program china.

I agree with Demon as I have been caught out twice in these conditions before at Rietfontein. Difficult to counter a wing dip with the bar full forward. It also catches you out when the trike is heavier, pax and fuel. If the runway allows then keep it on the ground longer as its safer and will then come off the ground clean.

I flew Big G down to the Vaal on Sunday morning to fetch his plane. We had similar crosswind conditions at Riet and we have to be very concious of it there due to our short runway.

We got to the Vaal at about 9am and it was a bit windy.

[TonyV]

There seems to be some misunderstanding about the bar fully forward take off. Peet at Crosswinds taught me how to fly many years ago on a very basic trike without any instruments - so there was'nt the option of rotating at a certain airspeed because you didn't know your airspeed and you had to rely on your trike to let you know. I still use this technique even though my Aquilla has modern conveniences like an airspeed indicator. Probably because I am old and slow and seem to have enough to think about when taking off without also having to worry about airspeed.

The full forward method does not consist of just pushing the bar forward, flooring the throttle and praying for a good outcome. The technique requires that you keep the bar forward until such time as the front wheel lifts off and then you keep your back wheels on the ground and your front wheel in the air by smoothly pulling back on the bar. The trike's back wheels remain on the ground with the bar being pulled back progressively to a bar back position until the trike takes off by itself well past the stall speed. Sounds simple but of course a lot more difficult in execution and requiring a lot of practice. Also I have found over the years that the technique has to be varied to suit the conditions. When there is a bit of wind you need to be wary of the jack-in-the-box effect when the trike jumps off the ground just on stall speed and leaves you off the ground in an extremely dangerous position. So, depending on the speed of the wind, I may even start the roll with bar neutral but always try to end up with front wheel up, back wheels on the ground and bar back until the trike takes off itself. When you don't have the luxury of runway length you need to make sure you keep the trike in ground effect until comfortably past that critical stall speed stage.

Barry's observation about the one wing stalling in a cross wind has given me food for thought. What I enjoy about my passion for flying is that you dare never to stop learning from someone else's experience.

I don't agree with a too rigid interpretation of the turn into the crosswind theory after take off. I was told that when I didn't have many hours under my belt and nearly impaled myself on a pole at the side of the runway when I turned into the wind! I think you actually need to track the centre line with the trike weathercocked into the wind until the end of the runway or at least until there is no useful runway left to make an emergency landing.

Some people think Peet kept us in training for an inordinate amount of time to milk more money out of us, and maybe he did, but ten years later I thank him every time I land safely for drilling in to me the basic flying techniques which have kept me safe, touch wood, over the years.

Brett, thank you for taking the trouble to add to my store of knowledge and I hope you mend quickly!

[Gyronaut]

Sorry to hear of your 'oops' Brett, glad you're ok.

Maybe its time to consider a gyro?



Len

[andreb]

Hey Len, his name is Brett.

[Gaylord Focker]

PUNANI on the brain and to much hard bar can create a problem

Hows the arm doing my china ?

[Gyronaut]

Hey Len, his name is Brett.

Oops! fixed.

[Nkwazi]

PUNANI on the brain and to much hard bar can create a problem

Hows the arm doing my china ?

Swelling starting to go down now - more comfortable than last week

[Smiley]

For me the worst thing to do is start the take off roll with the bar fully forward, especially in windy or gusty conditions
You then rotate at minimum flying speed, and the slightest gust or variation in wind, or a cross wind as i described
above, will cause you problems.
I personally prefer to get speed on the ground with the bar neutral, and when i reach rotation speed (the speed
i have selected on the conditions, usually 50-55mph) i push the bar brisklt forward to rotate, and then let it come
back a bit to build speed, and then ease it forward to get the desired rate of climb.

Agree 100%, this is the best/safest way in good or bad weather I think!

Speed is money in the bank on take-off and landing!!