BMW Engines Which one ?

[ZULU1]

OK, I may be a bit dumb on this one, I see the USA, France, Germany and the UK BMAA site has also shown interest in the BMW engine and here Oupa G (and Boet) has shown us how to build a unit. Wonderful stuff. The Canadians are using Suzukis but we dont get the clapped units here yet.

Now BMW make many bikes and many different variations it seems of the same motor as well as some singles which are Rotax I understand.

It is obvious that this flat twin engine now makes sense with the 912 and the HKS turbo being so expensive. That subject has been beaten to death ! It is such a shame in reality.

I haven't taken much interest in BMW motorcycles or the development of them but its obvious that millions of Euros have been spent on them so we dont need to question reliability. The later models at least.
I am most probably like many and wish to keep the trike, and buy/build something with fixed wings and a wheel at the back. To purchase a new Rotax 912 throws the project totally out of the window. Basically forget it. But to reduce the price and substitute a BMW makes it possible and advances the project by two years.

So my question to the ones that know?.

What is the best of the BMW engines to source and what controls, gearbox etc. would be ideal on possibly a taildragger such as the Cheetah or similar machine ?.

Almost a check list of where to go and what ground has been covered and most importantly what has been developed locally in the way of exhausts and other components.

I would like to keep this thread to specifics regarding the BMW motor as I would imagine there are many in a similar position. Then I can start looking for something with 100hp or more.

Thanks

Paul

[Hermanator]

BMW did away with the single cylinder 650 Rotax manufactured engine, in 2007. This was replaced, in 2008, by a new parrallel-twin cylinder (also developed by Rotax), and features on the 800s race bike, 800ST (sports tourer), the 800GS and the new 650GS.

In the three former guises, the engine puts out 85BHP and 61lb/ft of torque. The peak torque curve is at 5750 rpm's and the engine really does come alive as you hit 6000 rpm. The new 650GS also features the same 800 motor, except that it has been detuned to 71bhp. This motor puts out 55lb/ft of torque and reaches the peak torque curve at 4750rpms.

The 800 S/ST versions are driven by a Kevlar lined, v-toothed drive belt and, in performance bikes, BMW suggests replacement at 40,000 km's at a cost of approximately R2200.00.

Our rental fleet runs the 650 Twins which, with the low rpm's delivering peak power, our bikes return consumption of 4.5 lts per 100km's vs 5.5 to 6 for the (high-power) 800.

These bikes are ridden hard and far but use little to no oil and have proven faultlessly reliable. The cooling system is efficient, even when doing slow speed technical riding in harsh sand environments which proves the engines ability in both cruising and varying load environments.

BMW's engine management system is legendary which allows the engines to run on some of the lowest octane fuels without damage and very little loss of performance.

BMW have also spent alot of time on making the new series of bikes lighter. The 650Gs engine is in fact lighter than the 800 due to a smaller flywheel. The compact size of the motor has also meant that BMW can deliver bikes to vertically challenged riders of 5.2.

We've had a couple of bikes written off. The engines have been untouched and I'm told could be available for between R16 to R20K per unit.

I certainly believe that this engine could be a viable alternative to the 1200 motor if someone were looking for a high performance, light weight and economical alternative.

Lawrence

[justin.schoeman]

One of the things I noticed with the BMW engines, is that the output power typically specified is the maximum intermittent power. Maximum continuous is a bit lower.

What surprised me most, was that the R1100 had the highest continuous rating of 100hp. The R1200, while lighter is only good for 90hp continuous.

Not sure of the accuracy of this though:
http://home.comcast.net/~aeroengine/S1Displace4S.html

[Oupa-G]

We have been playing aroud with the R1100 and the R1200 GS these engines are remarkable We have 300hrs on the R1100 with a faultless running period . The 1200GS now has 180hrs on the clock with initially cracking exhaust but that has been totally resolved. The Eboxi systems are proving themselves and we will see what the engine will be doing in the Bushbaby Safari.I will report back accurately elsewhere on this site


Cheers
Oupa-G

[MPL Pilot]

Hi Justin

I have got a R1200RT, and the nominal output @ 7500 rpm is 81Kw which give you 108hp if my calculation is correct.
Max torque @ 6000 rpm is 115 nm.
I do not know what the weight is, can not imagine that it's much heavier than a Rotax 582, it's basicly a crankcase and 2 cylinder heads.
The reliability of these engin's are absolutely amazing, this bike is going for 60000km and has'nt missed a beat.
The last time I got a price for this engin it was ±R70k from the agents. Secondhand a lot less.

Depending what you want to spend, somewhere on this forum I read of someone looking to use a jaris motor, secondhand for a tenth of the price.
People like oupa-g has expierence with bmw engins, which will help a lot. In my opinion, you could find yourself doing development and spending a small fortune, then it is
cheaper to pay more initially, and have it running in a shorter period of time than not knowing how much it will cost eventually to use the cheaper options.

Fly Safe
MPL Pilot

[Oupa-G]

We have spent the small fortune in time and money. Ystervark who designed the Eboxi is a top class electronic boffin. If I had to pay his professional time for the developmental costs it would have been prohibitive. The average microlight pilot would prefer to get something for free and is then happy to pay for the trial and error with a forced landing and the dangers that go with such an exercise. We have been busy with the BMW project now for more then 8 years. It is wonderful to see other projects like the Yaris etc being developed we accept all the initiative with open arms because it will bring the price of 2nd hand BMW engines down to a more realistic price. Our engines now have full dual total redundancy on all critical parts. And now in the running of the Bosvark with various props it seems as if we are pushing out the same power as the benchmark 912S or maybe even slightly more. We are very pleased with this result. Over the weekend we will be running a P de Necker prop with the same diameter and pitch as for a 912S.This was just some info


Cheers Oupa-G

[Mogas]

We have spent the small fortune in time and money. Ystervark who designed the Eboxi is a top class electronic boffin. If I had to pay his professional time for the developmental costs it would have been prohibitive. The average microlight pilot would prefer to get something for free and is then happy to pay for the trial and error with a forced landing and the dangers that go with such an exercise. We have been busy with the BMW project now for more then 8 years. It is wonderful to see other projects like the Yaris etc being developed we accept all the initiative with open arms because it will bring the price of 2nd hand BMW engines down to a more realistic price. Our engines now have full dual total redundancy on all critical parts. And now in the running of the Bosvark with various props it seems as if we are pushing out the same power as the benchmark 912S or maybe even slightly more. We are very pleased with this result. Over the weekend we will be running a P de Necker prop with the same diameter and pitch as for a 912S.This was just some info


Cheers Oupa-G

Aiyayai
This makes my heart beat fast!
The proof is in the pudding with the comparative prop test and static rpm.
Now all that remains to be proved is the long term reliability and I am confident there will be no nasty surprises there.
Thanks to all the Durbanville boys for putting in all the time and $ towards NTCA, we would still be sitting with Volla engines as the only affordable option if it were not for the likes of you guys.
Mogas

[HENNING JOHAN]

Hallo!!I saw today the 650gs specs.I was wondering if it will work on my scout.71 hp is almost the same as a 582 ratax motor These motor are bullet proof!One of my friends always ride the iron butts on his 650 gs.He replace the motor after 150000 km(frist motor) then he put the second one in and still going FLY SAFE!!FLYBOY OBD

[Stephan van Tonder]

That engine is in fact a rotax...

[HENNING JOHAN]

Hallo,Stephan!Ek het die bike vir n paar dae gery en gesien dat op die motor "bombadier" staan nogal n blue top . Wat sal al die modificions wees?Of moet ek oupa g vra?Ek sal graag wil weet of die engin op my scout sal werk?Ek iemand wat n 1150 op n trike gehad het maar die trike het sideways getrek met take-off.Nou is ek bietjie skeptise omtrent die motor.Maar ek dink dat die 650 motor ideal is vir n trike,71hp.FLY SAFE!!FLYBOY OBD

[Wargames]

Hallo,Stephan!Ek het die bike vir n paar dae gery en gesien dat op die motor "bombadier" staan nogal n blue top . Wat sal al die modificions wees?Of moet ek oupa g vra?Ek sal graag wil weet of die engin op my scout sal werk?Ek iemand wat n 1150 op n trike gehad het maar die trike het sideways getrek met take-off.Nou is ek bietjie skeptise omtrent die motor.Maar ek dink dat die 650 motor ideal is vir n trike,71hp.FLY SAFE!!FLYBOY OBD

Hello Johan,

Soos stephan gese het. Die BMW 650gs engine is a rotax produk. As jy hom oopmaak staan daar rotax binne, en hy het 'n rotax crank shaft in. Vir dieselfde rede kan jy maar net sowel die 582 vlieg. Ek dink bradstof verbruik min of meer dieselfde, en as jy 6kW kan voel, is jy 'n beter piloot as ek. Dink in elk geval dat die 650 swaarder is as die 582, alhoewel ek nie syfers het om dit te bevestig nie, en dan sal die gewig die ekstra krag uit kanseleer.

Oor die 1150 wat skeef getrek het: My opinie is dat daar dalk fout kon wees met die montering op die trike. Dink dat dit 'n uitsondering op die reel is.

My Opinie

[Rudix]

Hallo,Stephan!Ek het die bike vir n paar dae gery en gesien dat op die motor "bombadier" staan nogal n blue top . Wat sal al die modificions wees?Of moet ek oupa g vra?Ek sal graag wil weet of die engin op my scout sal werk?Ek iemand wat n 1150 op n trike gehad het maar die trike het sideways getrek met take-off.Nou is ek bietjie skeptise omtrent die motor.Maar ek dink dat die 650 motor ideal is vir n trike,71hp.FLY SAFE!!FLYBOY OBD

Hello Johan,

Soos stephan gese het. Die BMW 650gs engine is a rotax produk. As jy hom oopmaak staan daar rotax binne, en hy het 'n rotax crank shaft in. Vir dieselfde rede kan jy maar net sowel die 582 vlieg. Ek dink bradstof verbruik min of meer dieselfde, en as jy 6kW kan voel, is jy 'n beter piloot as ek. Dink in elk geval dat die 650 swaarder is as die 582, alhoewel ek nie syfers het om dit te bevestig nie, en dan sal die gewig die ekstra krag uit kanseleer.

Oor die 1150 wat skeef getrek het: My opinie is dat daar dalk fout kon wees met die montering op die trike. Dink dat dit 'n uitsondering op die reel is.

My Opinie

Ek stem nie saam dat jy maar net sowel 'n 582 kan vlieg as 'n BMW 650 nie! Hulle is HEELTEMAL verskillende enjins al kom alby van Rotax. Rotax bou die 650 (of het in de verlede) vir BMW volgens BMW speks. Dis 'n 4 nie 'n 2 slag nie, 1 silinder en nie 2 nie, brandstof inpuiting nie vergasser nie. 'n Heeltemal ander enjin.

Dit alles gesê is ek nie seker die BMW 650 is idiaal vir vlieg nie, omdat dit 'n enkel silinder is vibreer dit volgens my te kwaai (Ek ry een)

Die 2 silinder boxer enjins is die regte opsie en dis verseker wat ek volgende gaan gebruik

[HENNING JOHAN]

Hallo,Rudix.Ek het Hermanator se artikel gelees.Hy praat dat jy n twin 650 motor kry,weet jy dalk meer van die motor af?ek ken ook die 650 single piston motor.Hermanator se dat hy n paar twins te koop het tussen 16 en 20 duisend rand.Dis veel goedkoper as n 582 teen R75 duisend.Een van my vriende het n 582 in austria by rotax gekoop oor die counter vir R45 duisend.Dis verpak en gestuur na SA vir die prys.Iemand boor ons vreeslik.Met die bmw motor is daar nie time ex op soos met die rotax.Ek het n 503 rotax op en wil dit op n stadium op gradeer na n 582.Met die 650 twin 4 stroke is dit vir my n beter opsie omdat die 2 stroke volgende jaar op bikes uitvaarseer.Die 2 stroke rotax is ook al van die "rak" af.Het het 2 jaar terug n kwotasie gekry vir die 503 op oor "gebou" te word vir R35 duisend.Die pistons +crank was alleen R11 500 sonder gaskets Ek oorweeg dit sterk om n kursus te doen om rotax "oor te bou" wil net met die regte persoon kontak maak.Maar op die stadium is bmw 650 twin n beter opsie.Ek hoop dat BMW daarna sal kyk om n microlight motor te produseer(lsa,ntca) FLY SAFE!!FLYBOY OBD

[Wargames]

Ek stem nie saam dat jy maar net sowel 'n 582 kan vlieg as 'n BMW 650 nie! Hulle is HEELTEMAL verskillende enjins al kom alby van Rotax. Rotax bou die 650 (of het in de verlede) vir BMW volgens BMW speks. Dis 'n 4 nie 'n 2 slag nie, 1 silinder en nie 2 nie, brandstof inpuiting nie vergasser nie. 'n Heeltemal ander enjin.

Dit alles gesê is ek nie seker die BMW 650 is idiaal vir vlieg nie, omdat dit 'n enkel silinder is vibreer dit volgens my te kwaai (Ek ry een)

Die 2 silinder boxer enjins is die regte opsie en dis verseker wat ek volgende gaan gebruik

Hi Rudix,

BMW het hulle 650 reeks opgradeer na 2 silinder engine. Jy het opsie van 'n 800 of 650cc.

My vergelyking het net gegaan oor krag. En vir daai doeleindes is die 582 en 650 baie vergelykbaar. Vir vlieg is daar net 5 aspekte waarna ek kyk. krag, gewig, brandstof verbruik, onderhoud skedule, prys.
Dit gese, behoort engines met dieselfde krag, min of meer dieselfde brandstof verbruik te gee. Die bmw beter agv die brandstof inspuiting.

Miskien om dinge beter te maak kan hermanator die gewig van die 650 vir ons deurgee sodat ons iets meer het om mee te werk.

Oor die onderhoud. CAA sal versoek dat 'n onderhoud skedule saam met die engine ingegee word. Hulle sal ook self hulle navorsing doen, en as hulle sien dit is n rotax crank, is die kanse goed dat hulle dit dieselfde sal hanteer as huidige crankshafts. Daar gaan baie meer moeite in om nuwe engine te gebruik as bloot net die montering op 'n trike. Hulle het al skedules van die 1150 reeks. Minder moeite.

[Rudix]

Ha, ek het vergeet van die nuwe "twins", het nie besef dit kom ook in 'n 650 nie? Iemand by BMW het vir my gesê BMW engins word nie meer deur Rotax gebou nie maar ek is nie seker of dit reg is nie.

As die nuwe engins nie te swaar is nie kan hulle dalk 'n goeie opsie wees. Ek wil 'n 1200 boxer in my Rans sit, ek wag in spanning om te hoor wat die resultate is met wat Oupa-G en sy span doen.

Ek stem saam, hulle kan sê wat hulle wil en baie stories vertel oor "spares holding" en "local support" maar ek is jammer, ons word VERSEKER geboor

Groete,
Rudi