Starting with training

[MPL Pilot]

I am starting with training next week, if all goes according to plan.

Something I would like to know, has any of you experienced gyro pilots done short field take off's?

I am thinking the same distance a trike would take to get airborne, and what is the rate of climb then?

Theuns at Kitty Hawk says after training a person would be confident to do just that, but I would like to hear from other pilots as well.

Thank you in advance

Pierre

[FO Gyro]

Gyro's can take off in a fairly short distance, but it's very important to get to know your gyro first, before going into any short strips. The dangers of getting it wrong is flying too slow at the back of the drag curve, and eventually mushing into the ground. This mustn't be tried at short strips until lots of practice is made.

At Kittyhawk, my MT-03 would need 120m to lift off the ground, and a total distance of 220m to clear an obstacle at the end of the runway (1 up). 2 up, the figures are 150m to lift off the ground, and 250m to clear an obstacle. If it's hot, or a strong crosswind, the figures can be a lot more. On a hot day, Microland at just over 400m, with 2 up, is comfortable, but shorter would be cutting it a bit fine.

The best is to practice on longer strips first, and make markers where you lift of the ground. You can then measure the distance accurately on Google Earth.

I would say that trikes have the edge slightly when it comes to short field performance, but only just. The GT-450 trikes perform very similar to gyro's however.

Rate of climb in my gyro 1 up was about 1000ft/minute, and about 700ft/min with a passenger (full take off power).

[MPL Pilot]

Thank you FO Gyro

Clearing an obsacle after 220m, what do you estimate your height would be? The reason I'm asking, I have a runway here
where I stay, 220m long with an electric fence at the end of it now which doesn't bother with the trike. Fortunatly
Aviators Paradise is just over the mountain from us and could fly from there if needed.

Since you are at Kitty Hawk, do you perhaps know Johnny? He will be my instructor.
All I know he's got 500 hours on the MT 03, but 5000 hours instructing. Sound good to me.
When I was doing trike training at Centurion Flight Centre, Flo realy made a point of safety
and pointing out bad habbits to the students which I apreciated. It would be great to get the same or better training now.

[t-bird]

Temperature, QNH and wind have a bigger influence on a Gyro’s take off distance than on a microlight or trike.

You can have one off the following that will make your shortfield even shorter:

The following happened to me

Choke stuck –At Brakpan almost run out of runway – Brakpan is 1 km
Rotorbrake stuck –At Summit – Already a short runway which became very short
Pitch adjusted too course – Rhino Park flew behind the power curve – Almost wiped out
Pitch adjusted too fine – Brits airfield used the whole runway to get airborne 2 up Hot and 90 degree crosswind.
Wheel bearing seized at Ellisras/Lepelale airfield gyro struggled to get enough speed.
Trim button inverted, forward is back and back is forward interesting flight at Tedderfield

My point is that anything can happen in any gyro, if you don’t have enough runway, you will be tempted to pull it off the ground and fly behind the curve.

Gyro flying is the best.

Enjoy it

Callie

[Low Level]

Clearing an obsacle after 220m, what do you estimate your height would be? The reason I'm asking, I have a runway here
where I stay, 220m long with an electric fence at the end of it now which doesn't bother with the trike. Fortunatly
Aviators Paradise is just over the mountain from us and could fly from there if needed.

AP will be your airfield. Like t-bird says, you are going to push your limits and gyro bites hard. 220 m is not enough for every day take off. Have a look at what happened to a very experienced gyro pilot on a too short runway.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5037&start=195

This you will see when you start training. Trikes are way better on short field take offs.

We need better pre-rotators. If we can spin to 250 - 270 rpm, 220 m will be a non event for take offs.

P.S. Johnny is a good instructor. Strongs with your training. You're gonna love your gyro, even if it takes longer to get in the air but then also it stays much longer in the air. Keep us up to date.

What is your reg? Maybe we meet somewhere there.

[MPL Pilot]

Thank you for the replies

T Bird you got me to think of all the little stupid things that has happened to me with the trike, I agree with you,
in conclusion no need to push the limits.

My trike registration is WNK, but I'll be training with a MT 03 at Kitty Hawk, doesn't know what the registration will be yet.

Someone said to me, can't remember who "never abort take off after lift off" in a gyro, how much truth is in that?

Thanx

Pierre

[FO Gyro]

Pierre,

The figure of 220m metres is for my machine, when 1 up, on a coolish day. On a hot day, with a crosswind, and when heavy, this figure could be as high as 500m (Microland's length from the threshold to the powerlines). It is very true that ambient temperature and the strength of the crosswind do affect the performance substantially.

My advice is to accurately measure, and to get to know you machine's capabilities before going going into short strips. Use Google Earth as I mentioned to measure the distance it took you. A gyro 1 up is also a very different aircraft compared to when at max all up weight.

[Low Level]

Someone said to me, can't remember who "never abort take off after lift off" in a gyro, how much truth is in that?

To the ignorant, I like to compare a gyro's capabilities to stop, to that of a boat on water. If you cut the power on 65 mph, say even 5 meter up, you will land perfectly within 50 meters.

I have seen, and done, a few stops after take off. Myself had problems with a VP prop and had to abort take offs where I just couldn't gain speed above 55 mph - a total non event to abort.

[MPL Pilot]

Thanx L L

[Gyronaut]

Hi Pierre

Welcome to the wonderful world of Gyro's. Your life will never be the same again - for the better!

Someone said to me, can't remember who "never abort take off after lift off" in a gyro, how much truth is in that?

Very little truth in that, if any, in my humble opion. Why ever not? If you see you may not make the altitude/airspeed required to clear the obstacles at the end of the runway or anything is not 100% with the gyro, close the throttle, flare and land. They stop very quickly without using the brakes. Much safer than trying to stick to some arbitrary rule of 'never abort' for no apparent reason.

Fly safe and enjoy every moment Pierre!

Rgds

Len

[Low Level]

Someone said to me, can't remember who "never abort take off after lift off" in a gyro, how much truth is in that?

I'm curious. Can you remember what their reasoning was ?

When do you start with your training ? Presume you're handle's gonna change sometime after that.

[MPL Pilot]

MPL Pilot wrote:
Someone said to me, can't remember who "never abort take off after lift off" in a gyro, how much truth is in that?

I'm curious. Can you remember what their reasoning was ?

Apparently rotor blade flap.

[FO Gyro]

Being able to stop on a tickie is one of the huge advantages of flying a gyro. Aborting a take-off is an absolute non-event, and is good to practise.

If the correct take off technique is used, rotor flap is impossible as the blades are in autorotation and no disymmetry of lift then exists.If anything goes wrong on a take-off, it's great knowing that one can stop in around 50m or so.

[Gyronaut]

Quite correct Glen. Impossible to get rotor flap once airborne. Even after landing, provided sound rotor management is practiced (i.e. stick fully forward below x rpm) it wont happen so I think the individual that advised Pierre is ill informed.

Len

[FO Gyro]

It's amazing the amount of misconceptions there are regarding gyro's.

Hopefully forums such as these can help address these, and show how awesome these little machines really are!