installing a backup fuel pump

[tandemtod1]

Hi Ross,
Yes, you have got it right now. I have never been able to find a link or site for Facet pumps, it seems as if they market their product only through distributors of which there are many worldwide. If you check some of these sites, you will find many different specs for the Facet which can be quite confusing as we don't get all the varients in SA.
The main specs are:
Fuel delivery 25 gals per hour with positive supply ( Verified)
10 gals per hour at 3ft lift (verified)
Recommended suction line lift Max 1ft ( Although works well up to 3ft)
Pressure 2 to 4 psi

"VERTICAL or HORIZONTAL ABOVE OR BELOW TANK
Here he is referring to the physical orientation and placement of the pump. The orientation is described by where the inlet and outlet pipes are pointing. In your case it is mounted vertically. If you turn the pump so that the pipes are parallel to the ground then it would obviously be horizontal. The internals of the pump are such that it doesn't seem to mind which way round you mount it and indeed I have seen them mounted every which way and still perform well. I must say that I don't know what he means by 45
Above or below the tank is a reference to the position of the fuel level. If the pump is mounted such that it is always below the fuel level, then obviously it is below the tank and will always have a positive supply whilst there is fuel in the tank. If it is mounted such that the pump is always above the fuel level, then it will always have a negative "lift" supply and is above the tank. If it is mounted halfway up the tank, then for the first half of the tankful you will have positive supply and for the second half you will have negative supply. As stated previously, the pump works well in any of these places so it,s up to you to find the most convenient mounting position for your aircraft.
And one for the next post, The more filters you fit, the more resistance to flow you will generate on the suction line. The standard Rotax pump operates on a negative lift supply in most installations and therefore you want to make it as easy as possible for the pump to lift the fuel without undue strain on the diaphram, so by fitting the Facet pump and the extra filter is being unkind to your standard pump and it won't last as long as it should. A coarse strainer inside the tank and a fine automotive filter before the pumps is more than sufficient to ensure clean fuel flow. Sometimes, more isn't better. No critisism intended. We all do the best we can with the info that we have got.
Happy flying

[Graham Mac]

, so by fitting the Facet pump and the extra filter is being unkind to your standard pump and it won't last as long as it should. A coarse strainer inside the tank and a fine automotive filter before the pumps is more than sufficient to ensure clean fuel flow. Sometimes, more isn't better. No critisism intended. We all do the best we can with the info that we have got.
Happy flying

This is a concerning statement as the long range tank fitted has two feeder lines/tubes coming out as the tank is split where it fits over the root tube.i plan to put a fuel filter on each line before the Facet fuel pump imediately at the tank feeder lines exit from the tank.

[John Young]

This is a concerning statement.

Hi,

The facet pump is completely free flow in one direction.

Fit a 0.3mm mesh filter over your pick-up pipe in the tank and safety wire into place. Use the complete filter approx. 25mm X 60mm available from Solo Wings.

Fit the facet pump in series ==> tank ==> facet pump ==> in-line 0.3mm filter ==> mechanical pump.

Flew with this combo for a long time.

Regards
John ZU-sEXY

[tandemtod1]

Hello Graham Mac
Your concern is not a major problem as I didn,t mean to imply that it it won,t work or that it will shorten the life of the Rotax pump to an unacceptable degree.
If you have no other option, then fit two filters, and be aware that if the diaphram pump fails, then your priming pump can also do duty as a backup pump.
And for the people that keep telling you to put the filter after the Facet, Will you guys please stop confusing the issue, THE FILTER GOES BEFORE THE PUMP - THAT IS IN FRONT OF THE PUMP WHERE IT CAN DO SOMETHING USEFULL. I have said this so many times in my recent posts that it is getting monotonous and I am getting the impression that nobody is listening. Typing is hard work for us old fogies as it takes a long time using only one finger and I am beginning to wonder if it is worth the PT.
Now I have a question about your tank. If it is split to go on each side of the tube, then isn,t there a pipe connecting the two chambers together? If there is, then you only need one fuel line coming out of the top of the tank as the interconnecting pipie on the chambers will maintain the balance. If there is no balance pipe, then there should be.
Will you be taking your two pipe out of the top of the tank or the bottom? If they are coming out of the top, ie one dangling in each chamber, then be aware that the tank will likely not empty completely and not all the fuel will be useable. If they are coming out of the bottom, then connect the two pipes together with a TEE piece which will act as a balance pipe and then place your filter between the TEE and the Facet

[Graham Mac]

tank3 (Small).jpg (28.54 KiB) Viewed 2751 times

Hi Ttod n John
Heres some photos of tank
sorry not very clear but all i can resize to send..resizing wont #$%#$^ work today
I really dont want to cut and drill into the body of the tank..only 8 ever made and impossible to get new.
would prefer to leave and filter both outlets and make shure fuel never goes below 15 litres
I really appreciate your input and will implement where possible...Tandem todd im also a ONE finger typer
so i appreciate your one blister forming

Graham

[Graham Mac]

DSC01818.JPG (65.32 KiB) Viewed 2747 times

another one i managed to resize..others wont work

[John Young]

Will you guys please stop confusing the issue, THE FILTER GOES BEFORE THE PUMP - THAT IS IN FRONT OF THE PUMP WHERE IT CAN DO SOMETHING USEFULL.

Hi,

Aikona my baas

For the facet pump to work properly as intended, then -

1. You must have a filter properly installed (wire locked) on the pick-up pipe inside the tank (pre the facet pump).

2. Should the in-line filter then mysteriously become blocked, the facet pump is on the right side of the restriction.

Have a good one.

Regards
John ZU-sEXY

[Graham Mac]

tank1 (Small).jpg (27.8 KiB) Viewed 2741 times

another one that hopefully gets the story across
confused now about filters before or after facet pump..only know that i will definately put filters before the diaphram pump

[John Young]

confused now about filters before or after facet pump..only know that i will definately put filters before the diaphram pump

Hi,

Don't be confused.

I will PM my cell to you.

Regards
John ZU-sEXY

[Graham Mac]

John..Got it will give you a buzz

[tandemtod1]

I give up. Do what you like. Consider this my last post on this forum.

[Graham Mac]

tandemtod
thanks for being part of a very interesting discussion, from my point of view anyway.you have valuble input.be
no need to get grumpy

[Bacardi]

Personally I think it does not really make a difference where you put the pump, or the filter, whichever way you look at it. Admittedly, it may be advantageous to keep moths and crawlies away from the pump, but the Facet is a robust basic electromechanical pump that should only fail when you get something like a spark plug in your fuel line.

It gets a huge thumbs up from me, making starting after prolonged periods a breeze, as said, and then giving you some peace of mind during flight. A number of guys here reportedly got out of a tight spot in the past, thanks to the Facet.

Do not taxi with the Facet in operation, otherwise you will not know whether your mechanical pump is in sound order prior to take-off.

And the downside: The pump was severely frowned upon by Alex during my last AP. He suggested that we contact Solowings for a letter of approval to facilitate a mod report and addended equipment list. Alas, Solowings declined fiercely. So, it may just be in your interest to bear this in mind and get rid of the ancillaries with a bypass tube prior to your next ATF inspection. It also bears implications related to equipment and life insurance, which may not be disguised so easily.

As for tandemtod1: Hey, you are seriously technically minded, stay put here, we need guys like you. Expect to take a lot more flack from the uninformed, go with the flow, they really have noble intentions, if you are willing to ignore their bad manners and inferior flying skills:)

[Splinter]

This subject always takes 5 pages plus! Many things to think of when installing a facet pump! Just a few things to keep in mind when doing it

1) why are you installing? For backup on to the normal pump should in break - after the filter. For backup when filter blocks and you need to force the fuel through as well as a broken pump(fuel starvation) - before filter as the facet is mainly a pushing pump and not really a sucking pump, hopefully forcing clean fuel into the carbs and not the crap that blocked the filter.

2) Below or above the tank? Doesnt really matter when the lines are full of fuel!

3) Use the pump for critical parts of flight (Take-off, landing, low level) but turn it of once at cruising alt as I dont know what the effect of cont. preasure will have on the normal pump in the long run. Maybe a shorter life? Thats why you have a backup!?!?!?!?!?!

4) Just remember the part about the AP and CAA.

I say it is a good saftey feature!
Fly safe

RED

[Stephan van Tonder]

Strange that It's frowned upon by some and recommended by others. Andy at Petit certainly doesn't frown on them and actually recommends it to people. Lots of the trikes there has them ad has saved the bacon of a couple of guys I know.