Xenon Gyro

[t-bird]

Hi Johan

I don’t know about any performance graphs for any Gyros. I can climb into any fixed wing and calculate density alt and apply it to the graphs in the POH.
Unfortunately you will have to use experience in a gyro.

Regards

Callie

[mak]

Callie

I am sure you must have come across this gyro performance calculation. If not you can download it, fill in your gyro specifications and see what the result is. I would like to hear the experts opinion on the accuracy of these graps. You can play around and see the effect of different factors on your gyro performance. I am not sure if the altitude and temp inputs calculates the density altitude or if you need to input the density altitude. Anyway, great to see the effect on performance, just don't know how accurate this is. I suppose from this you can draw up your own performance graph for different conditions and keep as a pre-flight check. Unfortunately they don't give things like T/O distances required.

http://www.icon.fi/~jtki/gyrocomp.html

[braam hechter]

Hi All.

Attached the Performance Graph that i am using. You basically have the temp of the day on one side and the runway altitude corrected for the density on the other side. By connecting them with a straight line you will find the % degredation in the middle field. This gives you an indication of the % degradation regarding the Rate of Climb as well as the % increase to the standard Take Off distance. (Read the legends on the graph) It is not precise numbers but an indication of what you could expect. I would think this can be useable as a rule of thumb for any flying activity.

I trust this will help some.

Greetings

Braam Hechter

[t-bird]

Hi Braam

Nice graph but I don’t think it is correct.
It is for the R – 100 hp non turbo RT 115 HP turbo and RST 130 HP.

It is not correct to use the same tables for 100 hp non turbo and 130 HP turbo for obvious reasons.

Hi Mak

I am aware of the website and calculations but it is very theoretical.

[braam hechter]

Hi T-Bird.

Thanks for the opinion. Why would this not work for the different machines. I have tried to explain that it gives you a % of the reduction in performance. Therefore the 100 hp machine may use 100 meters and the 122 hp 50 meters on an ISA day. With the relevant changes the graph gives a % degradation. This is for obvious reasons. You can thus work out the % for any numbers. I therefore think it will help as a rule of thumb.

What is your solution?

Greetings

Braam Hechter

[t-bird]

Your 100 hp engine will lose another +- 20 hp while your 130 hp will maintain at altitude of 5500 feet.
Loss on HP is +- 3 % for every 1000 feet.

This means that you sit with a gap of 50 HP – I don’t think that you can apply the same graphs.

You asked what is my solution – ABSOLUTELY NOTHING – I am not a manufacturer.

Regards

Callie

[braam hechter]

Good Day All.

I trust you are well. There has been many visits and excursions to Namibia. I have been in discussions with Mr Reini Hoppe (see http://www.gondwana-collection.com/home/map/) They are busy planning runways at most of their lodges and have invited us to come and visit them. They also plan to have limited technical support available as well. For more information you can contact Reini at maintenance@gondwana-collection.com

Greetings and continue to fly safe.

Braam Hechter

[FLYNOTE]

http://vps.zoniehosting.com/~rotary/for ... 50&t=30889
Now here's a thing! A yamaha engine being tested for the Xenon.

[Johannes Cronje]

I also wondered at times how a marine engine would perform in a gyro. They are made for continuous high revving applications as also referred to in the linked forum post. Two stroke so a saving in weight as no cam shaft and valves are needed. Crank shaft is lubricated with fuel oil mix so "dry" sump.

Cooling it down was a bit of a uncertain area, but I suppose a big enough radiator only would do as these engines run in an enclosed housing on a boat as well to keep it away from water ingress.
The more I type the better the idea sounds: 200hp @ 5 000 r/min V6 2-stroke outboard motor weigh 194kg. I assume that is with housing and prop gearbox etc. Wonder what the engine alone would weigh. Just for reference; the 4 stroke equivalent weighs 274kg.

So let's compare apples with apples (As close as possible):

Rotax 914 - 100hp continuous & 5 500rpm, 115hp short duration at 5800rpm with exhaust (1211.2cm³)= 68kg

Yamaha 115hp @ 5 000hp (1730cm³) = 165 kg (But once again this is with all the unwanted stuff like prop, gearbox, tilt & trim, etc attached). Anybody with an old outboard that would be stripping for spares so we can find out how much these stuff weighs?

Don't have time to take it further than an idea Wagtail..........?

[THI]

I also wondered at times how a marine engine would perform in a gyro. They are made for continuous high revving applications as also referred to in the linked forum post. Two stroke so a saving in weight as no cam shaft and valves are needed. Crank shaft is lubricated with fuel oil mix so "dry" sump.

Cooling it down was a bit of a uncertain area, but I suppose a big enough radiator only would do as these engines run in an enclosed housing on a boat as well to keep it away from water ingress.
The more I type the better the idea sounds: 200hp @ 5 000 r/min V6 2-stroke outboard motor weigh 194kg. I assume that is with housing and prop gearbox etc. Wonder what the engine alone would weigh. Just for reference; the 4 stroke equivalent weighs 274kg.

So let's compare apples with apples (As close as possible):

Rotax 914 - 100hp continuous & 5 500rpm, 115hp short duration at 5800rpm with exhaust (1211.2cm³)= 68kg

Yamaha 115hp @ 5 000hp (1730cm³) = 165 kg (But once again this is with all the unwanted stuff like prop, gearbox, tilt & trim, etc attached). Anybody with an old outboard that would be stripping for spares so we can find out how much these stuff weighs?

Don't have time to take it further than an idea Wagtail..........?

If I had ghe money I would have tried this. I have a friend that built boats. I'll pick his brain!

[grahame]

...

If I had the money I would have tried this. I have a friend that built boats. I'll pick his brain!

THI, any news from the brain-picking? I have a suspicion weight will be an issue.

[THI]

THI, any news from the brain-picking? I have a suspicion weight will be an issue.

I have unfortunately no feed back. I haven't spoken to him in a while. Been quite busy.

Weight is a relative thing. There is a weight difference between the Rotax and the eg Subaru and both of them are used. In boating weight is also in issue. Maybe we'll be surprised?

[whirly]

What is happening on the Xenon front? Why so quiet and two months since the last post here!!??

Any new developments at Xenon? How many now flying here in SA and any on the way?

Whirly.

[mak]

Whirly

Hopefully Braam can give you the full update. As far as I know there is 13 flying in SA. Celier Aviation released the generation 3 Xenon. The G3 got a bit of a face lift, new doors, a few aerodynamic improvements and a VP prop. Things are so quiet because I think Braam is waiting for them to sort all snags on the G3 before ordering, coupled with world wide economic slump and obviously Rand / Euro exchange not favourable at the moment.

[Centu Gyro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SznWlACXmU