Trike Tumbling

[grostek]

Found this on u-tube

Graphically shows what not to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_vbrMUCuZE

sad very sad


Kind regards

Gunter Rostek

[Byron]

What would cause the trike to pitch up so much?

[DieselFan]

I've got a clip which shows what should be done - if u enjoy attempting those manuevers

[RudiGreyling]

I've got a clip which shows what should be done - if u enjoy attempting those manuevers

Please post or upload for us, i like movie clips.
Looks like that pilot wanted to perform a loop...hmmm!

[Morph]

What would cause the trike to pitch up so much?

100% pilot error. Fly within yours and the aircraft's capabilities and this won't happen to you.

A few years ago a recently qualified instructor was test flying his plane. He came in on finals at about 1000ft AGL so he decided to stall it to loose some height. I believe he was over enthusiastic and pushed too far forward resulting in a whip stall. The nose went up, stalled dropped and started tumbling. He had no chance

[Byron]

I wonder what effect some well timed punches of power would have had ........ not that I think I would wake up one morning and decide to try it.

[DieselFan]

I've got a clip which shows what should be done - if u enjoy attempting those manuevers

Please post or upload for us, i like movie clips.
Looks like that pilot wanted to perform a loop...hmmm!

Will try post

[lamercyfly]

Morning guys.

Morph, the accident you refer to did not tumble. It merely entered a stall from the glide...........What we are trying to establish is what occurred at the point of the stall break.

Once a trike starts tumbling, it will not stop. After about 3 or 4 tumbles, the wing folds...........

The mass of the undercarriage just keeps the tumble momentum.........

Hang gliders have been know to just tumble once or twice and then stop, sometimes upside down with the pilot lying in the wing I have actually spoken to some-one who experienced a tumble.......really spooky.

Hang glider tumbles normally occur from flying too slowly in big thermals and nasty turbulence. Remember, if caught in bad turbulence in a trike, fly at Best rate of glide plus about 10mph. In your standard glider which stalls at about 35mph, you need to fly at about 50 to 55 mph.

Anyway, just wanted to correct your, and anyone else's thoughts, on the rosslyn accident.

By the way, that accident is still under investigation......

Regards.

[Sad-Ham]

What would happen if you deployed your balistic chute during a tumble like that??

[Morph]

Would probably be your only chance of survival. Not sure if you could actually get to the handle with all the spinning (centrifugal forces) or whether you would have enough time to react though. But in this case I would definately vote on having a chute. Rather have some chance than none.

[lamercyfly]

Strange that you mention the centrigugal force. One of the guys who got into a hang glider tumble, who broke one wing and then recovered from the tumble and entered into a radical spin, with only one wing working with the other wing broken, said that the centrifugal forces were so huge that he battled to pull his arms in to be able to deploy his parachute.

He said that his arms were like lead weights being flung around his body.

Big forces indeed.

I used to lecture all my students on the correct procedure for ballistic parachute depoloyment..........

It is imperitive that you forget about your trike once the shait hits the fan.....all you must concentrate on is the sequence of deployment.......

It takes all your mental and physical strength to pull it off.

But I agree, rather have a parachute than not have it.......

[Miskiet]

Dave,

With all of your experience maybe you can shed some light on the appropriate action should you find yourself in a possible "tumble" risk (I understand this to be in a stall with full power on, A/c pitching up beyond manuf. recommended limits).

We've discussed this at our field - some of the guys advocate to turn your wing fully to one side so you don't tumble but rather "sideslip" (if that's the right terminology for a trike) and then recover from the dive your trike will enter. Will this work? (I'm a little scared/reluctant to try it out myself! - :D )

PS - Aiden wrote something about the Rosslyn incident. If I recall correctly he mentioned that the wing failed in a negative loading? If aquilla's are rated to 3g negative how can this happen without tumbling?

A lot of us couldn't understand how this accident could have occured. As a result Misasa was all gung ho of doing some test flying with rated test pilots (and ballistic chutes!) to get to the bottom but nothing happened as far as I know...

[lamercyfly]

Hi guys.

ya, the tumbel is a no-no........No one, as far as I am aware, has survived to tell the tale, whilst tumbling in a trike.

A handful of hang glider pilots have survived though, and they all tell the same tale...........very, very quick, before you even know it, over you go.............

Tumbles can happen even from straight and level flight if you are caught in violently turbulent and gusty sky.

Best thing in these conditions (you should NEVER have been there in the first place) is to enter about a 20deg banking turn and get out of the sky. Do NOT overbank (as you mention), but keep it steady between 20 and 30 degrees ( a medium bank). You will NOT tumble from this attitude, and you can safely descend and go land somewhere and wait the bad sky out........ If you bank too steeply, you stand the chance of entering a very radical slip and very, very steep dive, from which it will be bery difficult to recover. This results in HUGE G forces - not nice, especially in an already unstable sky. You also stand a chance of being flipped over (upside down), depending on the severity and direction of the gust and how loose your flying wires are (which dictates your angle of dihedral of the wing if the flying wires unload and the landing cables take up the load)............

So, it is obvious that if you are pitched up into a very high nose attitude climb, then it is important to quickly enter a medium banked turn(while maintaining power), and then as the nose starts dropping below the horizon, reduce power and recover from the resultantant glide, adding power again when established for straight and level flight.

This is only necessary if you cannot recover from the climb just by pulling the bar in. I don't want to see everybody going into turns every time they just get a bit of a 'nose-up' You will most probably never get caught in the kind of nose up that requires the 'escape'.....

One place where this can happen just from straight and level flight, is if you are too low behind a high mountain, and there is a considerable strong wind coming over the mountain, and you are in the rotor.........You can get tumbled in this situation, and it is a situation that you can easily get into.

I am open to correciton here, but I think an accident happened like this behind the Magaliesberg mountain about 8 years ago....

Remember, if the conditions are that bad, and you choose to descend as opposed to climbing, enter a medium turn, and just spiral down on low power setting, until closer to the ground where hopefully ground friction will help in reducing the turbulence...............

Concerning the accident you refer to, I encourage you to ask the questions you do, but I am unfortunately not going to voice my opinions.

I can tell you that the test flight which MISASA (under the chair of Rob Hilil) pushed very, very hard for, was blocked by the CAA, for pathetic reasons........

This accident is in the final stages of investigation, and I can assure you that I am satisfied with the integrity of the investigation team.........

Kind regards.

[Henni]

All I can say is...

Now I know why I prefer 3-axis flying only! Trikes take-off very short, climb very fast, but in rough weather I'd rather be in a 3-axis.

Henni

[lamercyfly]

Hi Henni...........you just be careful of getting complacent in your 3 axis........there are as many monsters waiting for the careless pilot....and the not so careless.........do you know how quickly you can get into a flat spin and in what situation this can happen...........most fixed-wing's are doomed once they enter a flat spin, and what about torque rolling if you are low and slow with a high nose attitude and you apply full power and the environmental conditions help a little by a little thermal under the upgoing wing,.........and over you go, inverted, ........into a spin from which your aircraft cannot recover......... and control linkage failure.....a common occurence in fixed wings (my control linkage is a simple base bar)........

Anyway, fixed wing is lekka, so is gyro, so is hang glider etc., all lekka, but none of them if fool-proof.........so enjoy and take care and be careful other wise it WILL bite hard...

Regards.