Just as a matter of interest --

[Turbo]

I wonder how many more people would fly and grow this sport if the cost of aviation (LSA type fixed wing) was more affordable....?

[Bundy]

Exponentially more....in my opinion.

The LSA market is actually doing relatively well.....trikers moving up into 3 axis (Raasa figures suggest we are losing about 3-5 trike pilots every month based on licence renewal figures) and many PPL's trading in their 40 year old, R30k a year MPI fixed wings for NTCA's.

If you look at the current prices on Rotax spares...trikers are fast becoming an endangered species.

Just my opinion.

[Turbo]

Thanks Bundy, interesting facts, my actual reason for putting this poll up was to prove to all that rotax is a RIPP off, and with other options available flying would thrive!! It's nothing compared to what it would be if there was another engine manufacturer to choose from.

[Bundy]

I don't think we need any proof Chris.... Ons F@%$en weet!

It's more than just the cost of spares and engines though. I don't know if you follow the "Register Review" in the aviation mags? Go back through the last 3 years or so and count the number of New registrations on WCM's added to the register of the South African fleet...see if you can even find one!
The 2nd hand market is a buyers paradise with rock bottom, give away prices....yet these planes still sit for months without a buyer? It tells you that there are not many new pilots coming in...and a big exodus of current ones...either giving up or moving up to other types.

We bought our trike for R80K with 400hrs on her two and a bit years ago....after the prang and complete rebuild she is virtually a brand new air frame yet we would not get now what we paid for her originally...The exodus of current pilots as well as the fact that there are just not enough new pilots coming through is for two main reasons (I believe)...

1: Not enough expendible income available these days for such luxuries.
2: The "gatvol" factor...too many silly beurocratic rules and restrictive paperwork requirements.

I don't think there is a single pilot who would not support the idea of an alternate engine option to the current over priced one, but the cost of developing this idea, modifying the aircraft and regulations to accommodate it....then marketing this to a dwindling population of buyers is a challenge very few people would want to or could afford to take up?

Just my thoughts on it...but I would certainly support anyone who attempted to do so 100%. At this stage it looks like our next overhaul on our 582 will cost more than the plane is worth!!! Rediculous....

With the Rand just about in free fall...it doesn't help either...

[Turbo]

Hey Bundy --

glad you know -- but many others out there don't know -- hense the information - TO EDUCATE.

Regards the engine -- here's an example to substantiate that the ENGINE ALONE costs more (WAY MORE) than the plane does - in most cases.

How much do you honestly think it costs to build aluminium framework for lets say a "cheetah TYPE" plane? Although I don't know the answer to this figure, I can tell you that I will be able to build it (RAW MATERIALS ONLY) for less than R50K FAR LESS!

www.airdromeaeroplanes.com sell kits of the WWI and WWII planes - AWESOME planes, aluminium construction, real good stuff -- how much..... wait for it....

LESS THAN R100 000.00 SUID AFRIKAAAAAANSE ROND! air frame only -

now add your Rotax engine at the RIPP OFF PRICE OF R300 000.00 -- no thanks --

What we need is an engine that costs the same as or less than the plane -- then I believe there will be 1000s more pilots!!

Regards the disposable income comment -- its not how much money you have lying around, its how much money you are prepared to scrape together for the intended hobby, BASED ON ITS COST! So man people come into my hangar on a Saturday and see the Cheetah and Navion, and the FIRST THING they ask is how much does a plane like this cost ---- If I said R190 000.00 I BET YOU ANYTHING that 50% of the people who just asked that question would then ask -- "Where do I buy from?!"

its about the money yes -- and the stupid ROTAX price is what is preventing growth in the sport.

OK OK enough about Rotax - we all know its over priced.

sorry hoor!

[Bundy]

I agree 100% Chris...problem is it doesn't solve this...

...the cost of developing this idea, modifying the aircraft and regulations to accommodate it....then marketing this to a dwindling population of buyers is a challenge very few people would want to or could afford to take up?

...and by "people" I'm referring to the suppliers and manufacturers.... Everything from an Aquilla's to LSA's. They are the one's who should be looking into this subject in earnest as it will affect them the worst should Rotax finally achieve their goal of making flying completely unaffordable! Bottom line is they know the procedures necessary and can do the proper testing and modification required to introduce a new engine into the existing market, something we as the consumer cannot...(most of us at least).

That said...there is precious little budget available in the SA market for this type of development. Manufacturers are struggling for the most part. So it's a "catch 22" at the mo? I believe it is the export market that is keeping some of them alive.

It really is sad to see our local numbers decreasing due to this dilemma.

[Thatchman]

Its economics 101. Simple supply and demand that determines the price.

Normally when prices are high and excessive margins are being made it would attract other entrants into the market for a piece of the pie.

So who is making the margin? Rotax Austria or the local agent?

The cost of the engine kit for my RV12 from Vans is $29 000 plus shipping and vat (912s)

So does this mean that worldwide there are few cheaper alternatives or that the margins are not excessive?