LSA - WHICH ONE?

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Hypothetical question regarding "new" LSA/NPL/Part 62 training came up recently. Was quiet heated discussion and seems those that fly these are prone to favouritism. There seems to be 3 camps. Plastic fantastics, ali tube types and chrome moly structores. Most seem to favour the Rattex 582/912 engines. No headway was made, although some heads were almost broken by some overzelous proponents of certian types... . I am not in that league and since the RV12 is not avail as a tailie it leaves me in the dark....

Thus
Hypothetical question
If you were LSA instructor and wanted to teach spouce/kids/bothers/sundry mates etc to fly on part 62 type aerie which aerie would you choose and why?

Would appreciate some insight from the guys who actually drive these aeries... (and not just I hear that XYZ is lekka!, but I never seen 1)


Some of the following were touted... Sonex, J230, RV12 (but not with Rattex engine if that possible), Bushbaby, Kitfox, Cheetah, 701, Avid, Dream wings' aeries etc...

What is out there under R500K. (Sports cruiser is nice, but $$$$ as is Flamingo, Sting, Samba and the WT-9) - Read cheaper is better. Maybe should be <R200K, <R350K, <R500K and "Open Class" R500K+, split into off the shelf fly away vs kit built.

Off the top of my head the J230 would be close to the top, but on exepnsive side. A kitfox, Bush baby or Cheetah seems to be the choice in the R200-R300K bracket? First choice for me would be either Sonex, Jabi SP-T or Animal (without the price tag ), but that about the sum of my experience in this sector. This would be a 2nd aerie used only for fun and occational instruction, so can not justify huge cash. (Guy in the discussion has Cessna and aero's aerie, but these are expensive for OMMIDAM type flying and not LSA for which he now qualifies as instructor)

PS
Tandems are unfortunately out.... (I have had a couple and they are KAK for training "socially"....), but tailwheels are def PLUS... as would "tailerability" and thus folding wings....

PPS
If you have a LSA which is available for convex please advise. I am going to assist in the "feasibility" study (check numbers, get a couple convexes etc) with a possible view to following suit once the toy box is empty.

[weedy]

Hi George, how about the Rans s6s of Coyote, easy to convert back to tailly, but it has a ratex.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Not looking to buy one, want to know which one you oukes recon is best? and why?

No one?

[Boet]

How about: LOCAL IS LEKKER?

[nicg]

Youv`e mentioned the J230 - Is it the Jabi your`e talking about ??? I did my training in a J400 and I think it`s the best training plane ever built.
You really need to fly it - not like the blik aeries wich fly`s themselves It`s very economical and spacious compared to the C172 wich fly`s at three to four times the cost of a Jabi. If I understand correctly the J200 or 230 falls under LSA wich I couldn`t do with the 400. Another thing.... two or three guys came over for conversions - blik to composite - all three of them struggled to get the Jabi under the belt. Now I know of another two guys who went the other way round and immediately did their convexes on blik aeries without any problems. After a lengthy talk to one of the instructors at a school based at Wonderboom - he also explained the same story that if you can fly a Jabi, you can fly any blik.... but if you wanna do it the otherway round...your`e gonna struggle...
Wish I could have done the LSA - Hellava story for me to get all the PPL subjects under the belt these days
Only my 2 cents

[RV4ker (RIP)]

but if you wanna do it the otherway round...your`e gonna struggle...

Have heard this plenty times. I did not have a problem, but I fly taildraggers and you have to use your feet? Maybe that helped...

No instructors on here doing LSA training

[Wallaby]

RV4ker, maybe you must also asked about the cockpit size. Some of these planes will not take 2 big okes up. Maybe take them up, but they won't fit side by side. .
I don't even have my own plane, but if I have money available, I will buy local product. The local product will only get better if we buy more local. The more money we put into it, the more money the manufactures have to make their product better. That's just my 2c worth.

[Morph]

The inevitable answer. Bush Baby Explorer. Biased? yes, but here are my reasons

1. Probably one of the most docile tailies (with 'maklik' conversion to nosewheel if necessary)
2. Folding wings, 10minutes and they are back
3. Fabric and tube construction - easy and quickly repaired if one of those oopsies occur
4. Great flying aircraft
5. not overly complicated, i.e. flaps, retractable undercarraige etc.
6. price
7. Proudly SA
8. Brilliant local support from the factory
9. Capable of flying easily with any powerplant from 65hp upwards. Huge choice of Rattex, BMW, VW, Jabiru, etc etc etc

Oddly enough I would probably look at a 582 power plant, the 912 is great but takes too long to warm up, i.e. wasting training time.

[Low Level]

Oddly enough I would probably look at a 582 power plant, the 912 is great but takes too long to warm up, i.e. wasting training time.

If I might add, with my limited experience, it's better to train with too little power than too much. From the word go one learns a plane's got limitations, and it teaches you to FLY the plane.

[Wallaby]

And the Bush Baby really makes you use your feet. Also would agree with Morph that the 912 takes much to long to warm up. I get in the 503 and starts and within 3-5 min's I'm off the ground. All depends on how long it takes to taxi and do checks. No wasting time on the ground. If training with a 912, you'll probably spend 10-15min's out off every hour on the ground with the motor runnin'. That's money not well spend.

There's a lot of great imported aeries ( me haven't flown in them, though, so I go only for the looks ), but they are expensive and also one have to look at the after sales support. No use if your aerie's standing on the ground and no one to get you back in the air quickly.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

OK, so looks like I just gonna have to do this the fun way and go fly each of the LSA types out there....

[Stephan van Tonder]

George the best would be to fly all the types if you really want to get a feel for what is out there. You are welcome to come and chat to Andy at Petit on saturday mornings and get his input. He has trained on lots of types and he currently says that the best thing he has ever done was to go the cheetah route. They are great airplanes from the following points of view
1) Locally built
2) the support from the cheetah factory is very good as far a servicing etc. goes.
3) the aircraft is incredibly reliable and in 400 hours of training has never not been available due to a break down.
4) Very stable aircraft and yes also teaches you to use your feet.
5) specially for you - avaible in taildragger.
6) biggest cabin still on the market in my opinion and by far the easiest to get into and out of.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

he he he..

Will def do the flipping thing next year - That is the most fun part of looking for an aerie..... Just wanted to get some ammo for the dicsussion when it arises again... The guys who use Cheetah say it best. The guys who use Jab say it best. None say why, just that theirs is best. I like to go fast and not always the right way up, so that is very different to some ouke who has to do 30000000million circuits with Pup's all day. Most of them seem to agree with morph. 582 is better, although the 300/600hr thing has then thingking more about the Jabs than the Rattex...

I am rated on 5 of the light types and it is really much of a muchness as to choice of those. they are all 912/582 types and all do around 80-100mph. Was looking for someone who maybe has flown the Jab J2xx series and someone who has driven the Sonex. These are far faster than the run of the mill 100mph jobs and don't cost what the 912 retracts cost.

Hypothetically speaking...
how it came up was that if my old man was instructor I would have been able to log maybe 1200hrs dual by time I was 16 vs getting first "dual" hr when I could pay at 26. Thus for my kids I am toying with idea of doing instrcutors rating for no other reason than to be legally able to fly right and allow them to log the hrs. 1 is def gonna be a pilot of some sort, and chances are 2 of the other 3 will follow as well. So if this was your objective WHICH AERIE WOULD YOU BUY?

[AndyG]

Hey George,

Can't recommend an AERIE but have you looked at a vasectomy

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Hey George,

Can't recommend an AERIE but have you looked at a vasectomy

Been a sports model for a while now else would need Beech 1900 as family bus . We planned to have 2, but 3 kids in <18 months (2nd 1 was twins) was a huge . Then we had to make round numbers so we don't get 1 middle child syndrome (now we have 2 with middle child syndrome ). When 4th was still in ICU I went to see Dr Snyman....., but I am careful kinda guy, so Mommy got fixed as well "just in case".......

AND
That why I looking at J230. Can fly on NPL with 2 seats and skelm as J430 on PPL with 4 seats (luckily CAA don't read this forum...)