TAKING OFF PROCEDURES !!

[RudiGreyling]

<Snip> I still "DO" however disagree with a bar forward take off. A simple example would be next time in your car hold your hand out knife edge and then turn it slowly and see how resistance builds. Surely this would apply to a microlights wing as well. Also why do most or all aircraft have a 4 degree angle of incident built into the wing and not 10 or 15 degrees. <Snip>


Your's in Flying
CHAZ

Chaz,

2 ways to increase lift:
1) More air speed over the wings OR
2) increase the angle of attack at the same airspeed up to a point where it stalls which is then too much!

The thrust from the prop is constant in both take-offs, and much more than the resistance you'll get from increasing the angle of attack of the trike wing. The main reason I would increase the angle of attack during take off is to take, 'lift', the weight of the wheels earlier on soft and rough runways to reduce the wheel drag. On smooth runways it should be much of a muchness.

Looking forward to your experiment results.

Regards
Rudi

[IFLYHI]

I have never flown a trike never being in one
What I have seen is guys would have the bar forward all the way and not do that transition phase after lift off, of pulling back to built up speed
ie The whole climb out seems like they spent it on the stall.
So if the ponies run out at 30 ft that will just spell problems, a bit like being in the dead mans curve

[Tumbleweed]

Any experienced comment about the Raptor wing's adjustable tailing edge setting?

Hav'nt played too much but by raising the tailing edge allows for quicker lift,especially with heavy pax, although compromises speed. Simply re-adjust once straight and level.

[ICEMAN]

I agree with greylingr: both methods have their place. (actually i would say there are 3 methods: (bar neutral; bar halfway foward and bar full foward and then the variations thereof)

Its a case of selecting the correct method for the coorect circumstance you are presented with.; each has pros and conns.....

I personally am not a fan of "full foward T/O" as you are essentially flying the stall and relying 100% on yr motor to keep yr butt safe; however i have used it on occasion eg short strip with powerlines etc...... this is a case of selecting the lesser of the two evils ie "possible" engine out vs "definate" Escom powerlines....

When i was training, it was initially one method only to KISS...... however towards the end of the training the instructors expanded on various techniques for various conditions...... i would of thought this to be a pretty standard course content.......

my 3c worth

Regards
Stan

[Chaz]

Heya Folks

I am totally . Could not get my "butt" to "lift" outta bed this morning so end result "NO TEST".

Rudi/Iceman thanx for the great and informative response

Your's in Flying
CHAZ

[Smiley]

:D

[C205]

I think Chaz that your original question was which is the safest way - not the quickest off the ground. There is a difference.

[Morph]

Hi C205

Chaz's question was

IS THAT GOOD PRACTICE OR IS IT ACCEPTABLE

This cannot be answered unless to give the reasoning behind the practise which is what we waxed lyrical about. :D

So to answer Chaz's question, it is acceptable but only in specific circumstances and not for normal takeoffs

Now Chaz that we all have an image of your Butt getting out of Bed when can we expect the results of your highly scientific test

[Smiley]

Maybe we should ask his daughter to do the test for us!! :D

[Chaz]

Sheeesh Folks

Seems like i should have kept my mouth shut about getting outta bed this morning. Morpheus hopefully 2morrow morning. C205 safest YES and most acceptable to rookie pilots. Wonder if CSIR would allow us to put a microlight in there wind tunnel *Cough* erm smiley :D :D :D

Your's in Flying
CHAZ

[Bundy]

For those of you who have not ventured to page 105 of Hanger Talk...

I found this old Thread quite interesting....

It seems I was lucky to be taught both methods. Our strip is pretty bumpy so I normally take off with the bar slightly forward to minimise the stress on the airframe. On Rotation, bar pulled back and accellerate in ground effect untill best climb speed is reached. On smoother strips I tend to use the bar neutral method.

To be honest, I have not noticed a massive difference in the amount of runway used on the ground roll between the two methods? The point above the runway where best climb speed is reached is pretty much the same because even though you are airbourne slightly sooner with the bar forward method... it still takes a few seconds after rotation to reach the correct speed to climb safely? Dunno... I suppose it depends on quite a few factors.

[vernon11]

When I had my trike. Full throttle, with bar in to help attain speed. At rotation speed, I would push the bar forward for a second or two, to initiate lift, back to neutral then bar in a bit in case of engine failure.

[MADDOG]

Bundy, you must understand the origin of this mail.

It came out of Springs and the Manne va Staal are large okes. When a Man van Staal is in a Microlight, the bar is full forward!
This is how it must take off.

[Big-D]

Was lekker reading this again, dating back to 2006 - For me it is 4 trikes, 400 hours and 5 years ago

We have had interesting discussions here on this forum, for sure


D

[Alkemac]

my 2.5c worth..

When I did my training on a school trike, it was always bar forward, a clenched fist from the profile tube. I then bought APE, and took it for a test flight, with an instructor. Did the same as usual on take off, and flew straight into a stall, which thankfully was corrected.

Did a bit of thinking on this one, and realised APE's wing is smaller than the school trike, so the wing characteristics will affect take off position.

I then started flying APE more regularly, and used to keep the bar slightly inside of neutral, until I was reprimanded for putting load onto the wing.

I now take off with the wing slightly forward of neutral, until I feel it wants to fly, and then rotate.