Escourt Ultra City Discussion

[Tailspin]

Good Morning all,


I would like to move away from the Ultra City Landing and talk more about the bigger issue here. That is how the CAA goes about an Enforcement Case.

Thanks for the good work

Before we move away let's just get some clarification are we allowed to land at Escourt Ultra City or not

Tribal

From what i understand - If i have a letter from the land owner to say he gives me permission and i am not putting anybody's life in danger than Yes. But hey this is Africa, and Christmas is coming so CAA need to pay bonuses and the Person who did the reporting is most probably jealous as hell that he cannot land there. Would love to find out who laid the complaint and then i would love to have a quiet chat to him.

[John Boucher]

In my opinion - yes... The strip is listed in the electronic airfield directory as a microlight strip for obvious reasons. However, the way CAA sees it (whether they are informed or not?) NO. Has been used for ages. One thing that may really cause problems there is should a pilot taxi his aircraft to the pumps as opposed to shutting down on the strip and then re-positioning from there. Props and pink mist with the public is a serious eina situation.

We have been in contact with the pilot and I have an appointment with him this morning to discuss further. I have to agree with Bundy's take on the matter.

Seeing that I HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT I or ANY OTHER MISASA REPRESENTATIVE, MAY NOT IN ANY WAY CONFER WITH ENFORCEMENT OR REQUEST ANY INFORMATION FROM THEM AS ARO, my hands are tied in that department. This after me standing in as Chairman whilst Donald was on leave, I inquired on behalf of the EXCO as to how many enforcement case were active, resolved etc. for pilots in the LSA/CCM/WCM class. We now have to follow other paths which is contradictory to what one of the purposes of an ARO really is!

In plain language, those that know me - dit maak my befok en verskoon die taal!

[Tribal Croc]

Thanks guys

Next question

I buy I plot next to let's call it " Microland " they have bee operating Microlights for 15+ years.

Now I don't like them flying over my mielies because the two stroke gas is causing deformities in my mielies

I call CAA (certified asshole association ) and they start fining R10k for every Microlight that lands there

Explain to me how the F$ck that works

Next thing CAA will be at my farm starting dishing out fines WTF

[John Boucher]

I think the one person that can answer you on that scenario is LaMercy Fly (Dave Daniels)

[Bundy]

From what i understand - If i have a letter from the land owner to say he gives me permission and i am not putting anybody's life in danger than Yes.

I hate to sound like Naas Botha here...but it's all down to the iterpretation of the Law. You may interpret the Law one way, but the CAA will interpret it another way. So who is right?
That is why it's so important to have a 3rd party (ARO) view on it.

The CARS are written in Black and White, but what colour do you get when you mix those together?

CAA Enforcement finds you guilty. The DCA is the head of the CAA. They fine you and give you time to appeal their decision.... Who do you appeal to?....The DCA! Does that sound impartial to you guys?

WRT Ultra City...

I believe we are allowed room within the Law to land there as we have the owners permission to do so. You must make sure however, that there is no one on the runway, and that under no circumstances do you taxi between members of the public or up to the pumps. I would re fuel via jerry can if I was you and not manoever my plane out of the "runway area" at all.

That is my interpretation.

I highly doubt we will recieve any formal written instructions from CAA or anyone on how to land at this Ultra City. For them i'ts much easier to place the blame on the pilot than do anything pro active.

[Bundy]

Thanks guys

Next question

I buy I plot next to let's call it " Microland "

Chom...if you do that...can we extend the runway a bit?

TC, go watch that DVD '"One Six Right". Its a huge problem all over the world. Guy Leach also wrote a good piece on it in the June edition of SA Flyer... "How to steal an Airport"

So you buy a house next to an airport and then complain about the noise?
Stupid is as stupid does....

[Bundy]

Guy Leach

Woops...

Guy Leitch

Stop laughing JB...

[John Boucher]

How did you know

[Low Level]

I'm curious, and most propably an ignorant question, but I don't know.

If I do not pay an ADMISSION of guilt on a traffic violation, I get subpoenaed, go to court, and argue my case. The magistrate then decides if he/she likes my face or not. I get discount, case gets thrown out of court - has happenned to me - or worst case scenario, pay the whole fine. No lawyers, no extra cost etc.

What happens if I do not pay the ADMISSION of guilt at CAA ?

What happenned to innocent, until proven guilty ?

[Air Hog]

Would love to find out who laid the complaint and then i would love to have a quiet chat to him.

Hi Gavin, looking at this, this is NOT going to be a quiet chat, there is a lot of LOUD BANGS involve

[John Boucher]

This is what it says....

You are hereby called upon to pay a sum of R xxxxx.xx
within 30 (thirty) days of receipt of this Penalty Notice to the Director of Civil Aviation (DCA) of the South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) at Ikhaya Lokundiza, Building 16, Treur Close, Waterfall Park, Bekker Street, Midrand; Postal address: Private Bag X73, Halfway House,1685, by a bank deposit or by electronic transmission into the CAA’s account of which the details are set out above; or alternatively, within 14 days of receipt of this Penalty Notice lodge with the DCA, in writing, your objections to the Final Decision on the above allegations, either in person or through legal representative, including any new evidence demonstrating that you did not commit the above alleged offence, or additional mitigating circumstances. When paying an admission of guilt fine electronically or by a bank deposit, please fax proof of payment to the following fax number, namely 011-545-1454, quoting the reference number appearing above
KINDLY TAKE NOTE THAT –
(1) You have a right to appeal this Penalty Notice to the DCA.
(2) Should you not pay the amount stated on the Penalty Notice within the period of 30 (thirty) days and should you fail to deliver an appeal with evidence to the DCA within the period of 14 (fourteen) days –
(a) you will be held to have admitted to the offence;
(b) the DCA may approach the courts; and
(c) you may thereafter be summonsed to appear before the courts in terms of the Criminal Procedure Act.
(3) Should you pay in terms of this Penalty Notice, a Notice of No Further Action will be issued to you.
(4) Should you have lodged an appeal in compliance with the conditions specified herein in respect of Penalty Notice –
(a) you will within 14 days of receipt of such appeal receive confirmation thereof; and
(b) the DCA shall adjudicate on the matter and make a Final Decision either by a confirmation, an amendment, or the withdrawal of the Penalty Notice.

[CVStrong]

I'm curious, and most propably an ignorant question, but I don't know.

If I do not pay an ADMISSION of guilt on a traffic violation, I get subpoenaed, go to court, and argue my case. The magistrate then decides if he/she likes my face or not. I get discount, case gets thrown out of court - has happenned to me - or worst case scenario, pay the whole fine. No lawyers, no extra cost etc.

What happens if I do not pay the ADMISSION of guilt at CAA ?

What happenned to innocent, until proven guilty ?

Low level, you took the words right off my keyboard...

Comments please oh esteemed gurus...

[CVStrong]

This is what it says....

KINDLY TAKE NOTE THAT –
(1) You have a right to appeal this Penalty Notice to the DCA.
(2) Should you not pay the amount stated on the Penalty Notice within the period of 30 (thirty) days and should you fail to deliver an appeal with evidence to the DCA within the period of 14 (fourteen) days –
(a) you will be held to have admitted to the offence;
(b) the DCA may approach the courts; and
(c) you may thereafter be summonsed to appear before the courts in terms of the Criminal Procedure Act.
(3) Should you pay in terms of this Penalty Notice, a Notice of No Further Action will be issued to you.
(4) Should you have lodged an appeal in compliance with the conditions specified herein in respect of Penalty Notice –
(a) you will within 14 days of receipt of such appeal receive confirmation thereof; and
(b) the DCA shall adjudicate on the matter and make a Final Decision either by a confirmation, an amendment, or the withdrawal of the Penalty Notice.

So firstly, if you for some reason don't meet the timelines, you are automatically guilty as you have admitted to the offence ... What if you are travelling and only get the notice after 14 days??

What about Hearings and discussions? the DCA will just give you a ruling... and this is now final and you now have no other options???

[Tailspin]

Would love to find out who laid the complaint and then i would love to have a quiet chat to him.

Hi Gavin, looking at this, this is NOT going to be a quiet chat, there is a lot of LOUD BANGS involve

I have a wooden spoon i would like to Shove somewhere

Load of BS this

[Tumbleweed]

John can you stipulate the law or notam which was contravened and what specifically is the charge?

This is relevant to landing on any private strip/ outlanding without the owner's explicit approval/ refusal.