aircraft over RC field @ rhino

[The Agent]

When ever we have a fly in we tell the visitors that decending on the North side is a no no.
In the airfields directory of SA it says:
Notes Caution
APP to S or Edue radiocontrolled aircraft in the NW corner of AF. Join overhead at 6000ft at crossing of 03/21and 09/27 and beware of downdraught.


Some people I know have done a touch and go on the radio field.

Dit was baie lank gelede.

[John Boucher]

Skybound... SPOT ON!

STING has brought to the attention what is a dilemma at a few airfields across the country. My posts may be interpreted as scathing but they are not! I am curious what is in place at other fields. Also, who in their right minds approved the sharing of air space in such close proximity. The bottom line is that we all are supposed to adhere to the AIR LAW & AIR REGULATIONS as stipulated by SACAA and to be quite frank, I don't give two hoots what SAMAA says as they are supposed to answer to SACAA and should not be in the position to APPROVE R/C flying sites without the pertinent approval or consent of SACAA!

As SAFETY OFFICER at John Weston Airfield, I sit with exactly the same dilemma with a R/C club smack bang in middle of the intersection of the two runways. In trying to setup safety procedures for both fixed wing and R/C aircraft I have come to bump heads with certain people. My suggestions were shot down in flames by the R/C members as this would increase their social workload at the expense of safety. So, I am NOT sympathetic to R/C operators at all under the present circumstances - even though we tried to find a medium where we co-exist.

The bottom line is that we CANNOT share the same air space in such close proximity. A simple example would be a mixup of transmitter frequencies and an R/C aircraft becomes a out of control missile. We are lucky that no accidents have taken place but there have been incidents where model aircraft have flown out of their flying zone and into the path of approaching aircraft....

So, I ask again - WHAT SAFETY RULES ARE IN PLACE AT RHINO WHICH BOTH R/C AND MANNED AIRCRAFT HAVE TO ADHERE TO?

ps. The R/C strip often gets seen by helicopter pilots as their training spot for outlandings and hovering much to the objection of the R/C club!

[andreb]

Over the rc airfield at 100ft AGL is out of the circuit at Rhino, not to mention dangerous due to the number of trees in the area. Common sense and an eye for obstacles should tell you that. You can also spot the rc field from far away and again common sense should be telling you what it is.
Maybe give the allegedly offending pilot the benefit of the doubt and we say he was inquisitive...and maybe not.

[John Boucher]

Nobody seems to want to answer my questions....

[Arnulf]

Nobody seems to want to answer my questions....

That is because you probably hit the nail right on its head.
And to answer your question, uhm, well ja you see ah uhm ah ah..............................

[mak]

Bad Nav

I have done my training and flying from Rhino for the past 18 months. Since day one i have been told that the RC field is a no go. As andreb said, due to trees etc. common sence tells you it is a no go zone. The RC airfield is about 200m away from the runway and behind the RC club buildings etc, and i therefore think the RC guys can not fly towards the runway in any case or they will loose sight of their planes, i have never even seen anyone close to the runway. It is not a busy RC club and haven't seen more than 2 planes in the air, mostly only one if at all. Yes, yes i know it only take one to cause an accident, but all the time at Rhino haven't once felt nearly threatend by this. All local pilot adhere to this no go zone and can only assume the RC guys were told the same and adhere to this.
What is more of a concern is our fellow aviators calling overhead but on the wrong frequency, or six fellow aviators in a group calling "passing south of your airfield" and then flying through the circuit between the runway and downwind leg, at circuit height, while three student pilots are in the circuit, one had to abort turn into base to avoid them and when asked what the hell they were thinking telling the people to f... off.
So Bad Nav to try and answer your question, i havent seen pilots go north of the runway or see RC guys go south of their airfield and this separation work for the local people and people knowing the local rules. It however seems that visitors don't have any respect for the local rules and conditions or doesn't bother to find out about them because it is an unmanned field.

[thermalator]

My understanding is: the whole place falls under one land owner, & his attitude is - the more the merrier. Local rules apply, end of story.

I believe the paragliders may start operating again ....other side the swamp


So sting...tolerance has 2 sides, including not getting too high on a soap box when the other side impinges on your turf

[John Boucher]

Well....

Paragliders, gliders etc are just going to make the procedures a little more complex I daresay!

Only having 1 or 2 R/C's in the air is less of a problem. There are 4-6 aircraft in the air at times at John Weston. The request from the r/c committee was that on Saturdays & Sundays no touch and go's get done but rather all taking off aircraft must bugger off to the main airport or to the GF. Huh! So who appointed them "gods of the sky"?

SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY is of paramount importance but who gives way to who? All I can revert to is AIR LAW or AIRFIELD REGULATIONS and that I have already listed on a previous post....

RULES have to be in place!

[skybound®]

It however seems that visitors don't have any respect for the local rules and conditions or doesn't bother to find out about them because it is an unmanned field.

It is unlikely that I will be visiting this airfield any time to soon, but if I was, the information referred to needs to be published to be 'shared' with visitors so that they can comply. Even if unmanned, special procedures/frequencies need to be in the AIP or supplements as this is the official resource for aviators. I have looked for these for Rhino and have not found them, hence they either do not exist or are well buried in an ENR and if are causing the level of concern as stated in the two threads, perhaps the locals should have the AIP ammended?

You may say well phone a local etc - but this is not always possible. You may have diverted to the airfield owing to weather or whatever and you follow the info in your AIP (the trusted source) only to find the locals operating on an undocumented frequency.

[John Boucher]

Thanks for that SKYBOUND!

Well MAK, you have been flying there for 18 months and what you have been told is VERBAL! Then I ask you, have you been furnished with procedure list (ie joining etc.) for RhinoPark where specific mention is made of what to avoid?

Just say YES if it exists or NO - non existent procedures!! If YES, I would like a copy to assist me with procedures to be implimented at our airfield. If NO, I rest my case.....

[Low Level]

I'm more asking than stating.

In the airfields guide, which is more readily available to us weekend warriors, it is stated that no circuits are to be flown to the north of the 09-27 and to the west of 03-21 the smaller circuit on the pic, which are rarely used - then I would presume there is a valid reason for not flying there. If you approach the field, the RC field is very obvious, and that should be the reason then.

I've added this pic for infos sake. The Rc field is 450 m from the threshold of 09 - safe distance by me, and they fly to the north. If you have a look at the circuits that I have added, and the position of the RC field - to go flying there, is looking for trouble. Even if you do not know the field, to go to Rhino park you should know not to fly to the north of the field.

Rhino park.jpg (55.09 KiB) Viewed 1905 times

[skybound®]

Nice diagrams Ldel. There is no fault in your thinking and is exactly what should be published for that field. As it stands using your pattern it would mean that a pilot would effectively be breaking the law by flying them. Standard circuits are left hand circuits - unless published otherwise or told by an ATC to fly it otherwise.

Playing devils advocate - say a pilot joins left hand and another on right hand. In the event of an incident/accident the one flying the non standard circuit could be the one deemed at fault. So one is really faced with the decision - do I take on the possible mid air with a model or do I break standard procedures - both can have undesirable outcomes.

Perhaps time for the stakeholders involved at Rhino to get involved - maybe we are missing something. If not, then perhaps time for aggrieved persons to file a CAHRS.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

There is a field right next to Panorama at which they fly bigger RC. Wonder what they do? They have plenty traffic (ML's, heli's) and it where most route into and out of rand...

PS
I know someone who some years back collected one of these in mid air just west of panorama and did not even know it (thought it was bird strike). When he landed at rand there was RC u/c stick on strut....

[John Boucher]

This is my dilemma at John Weston. The large tar circle is not a helipad but the R/C club! It's in the middle of everything ..... really not good.

The other fields one could quite easily sort with the correct circuits, circuit heights and joining procedures