YOUR OPINOINS

[Biggles]

So at what field was this?

[saraf]

Private stip.

[Bennie Vorster]

Hi T - Bird

I am aware of the law's regarding aircraft on landing and taking off and that aircraft landing has right of way. I fly on an national airport with ATC's most of the time so I have to know the law and regulations. So there is nothing wrong with my knowlage of the law......

I just asked for some opinions from you guy's as the Guy on the ground is a very "expieranced" pilot and a well known one at that and was supose to know the law, I even think he is a instuctor for that matter.

Regards

Maybe he just had a bad day. I suppose it still boils down to who was the most chicken on the end of the day, the other guy wins.

[Splitter]

Its not a matter of laws and what one is supposed to do or not.

Its a matter of being a asshole or not!

We all have to look after each other and someone that does that sort of thing must rather go and play dinky toys. We dont need people like that in our fraternity. We need gentleman that will concider others.

My 1mil zim$ worth

[t-bird]

Hi Saraf

If I understand correctly, the incident took place at the SAGPA agm.
Everyone who attended, have flown there to have a good time. A nice social event.
So why not chat to the guy afterwards and have a cold frosty?

I have made a mistake at a micro light fly inn, where one of the pilots had a chat with me afterwards.
I have learned from the experience and made a good friend.

And I have to agree with DEMON “guess it all boilds down to airmanship, courtesy and common sense - do what makes for the smoothest flow of air traffic when there are so many guys waiting to use just one runway”

Not your experience with ATC , just courtesy and common sense.

Your remarks as to the fact that another pilot should do air law again is of poor taste.

[The Agent]

Please pass my pop corn and a brandy and coke, this is going to get hot.

[GR8-DAD]

Please pass my pop corn and a brandy and coke, this is going to get hot.

Oom Agent, het die Eish al gesmelt in jou dop, ek gaan gou "nog eenetjie skink" net vir incase.........

[saraf]

Hi Guy's

It will not get hot in here...........

I only wanted some opinions and share what happend. I mentioned it here for the simple fact that I did NOT expect it from the specific pilot to do somthing like that and then get arogant on the radio when he was in the wrong.

But lets leave it there......

Regards

[t-bird]

Hi Saraf

Let’s not leave it. These guy’s already have popcorn and brandy !!

Was the guy on finals in a gyro?

If so why not orbit on finals and land behind the other aircraft that is halfway down the runway?

It is a Gyro not a boeing 747. Landing roll should be 0 meters and if there was a nice wind, he should have been able to hover on finals.

It seems to me that the plane halfway down the runway was already accommodating the plane on final.

Once you have started pre rotating it takes more time to stop the rotor and clear the runway as to take off.

If the guy on final was flying a gyro, he should know that.

[saraf]

Ok......

I was overhead with no one on runway, guy started to backtrack without even asking if he could. I called and told them I will accomodate by joining overhead again until they got to holding piont and will then join for finals. First gyro turned around in middle of the runway and other proceeded to holding piont like they said. I called and asked what the intentions was of the gyro that turned around as I was turing finals , he arogantly told me the following "approching aicraft does not have right of way if there is aircraft that wants to take off" he did not even start his prerotation at that piont!!!!!!!!!!!! I had to abort my approche and join finals again after he took off. Other aircraft was waiting for me to land as they should have at the holding point.

Now in my opinion and the law's I had right of way as I was on finals and reported long before I even joined overhead that I was on my way to the airfield and will be joining overhead.

[Morph]

Sounds like this needs to be sorted out over a cold frosty

Technically we have all agreed that they were all in the wrong to enter and backtrack a runway with you already being in circuit and having stated so. However you did accommodate them.

The question I have is, would it have taken longer for the guy who turned around to taxi all the way back to the holding point instead of turning around and taken off. If it was quicker to turn around and take off then he was doing you a favour. Otherwise he was taking a chance

Although you were right in terms of the law I wouldn't have even considered turning to finals with another aircraft on the runway, unless of course he is at the other end and exiting.

The main thing here is dialogue, I would have announced a go-around, gone around again, and landed safely. Then afterwards I would have gone up to the guilty party and had a nice friendly chat with him. He might actually be thinking he was doing you a favour by clearing the runway quicker.

Kiss and make up

[Tailspin]

I understand what the law says and all that but my opinion in as follows:-

If i am on finals and some dude cuts infron of me without my permission etc and i have say carbs all nicely iced up of an engine failure we are both DEAD PERIOD this is not good airmanship. I have had two similar incidents, one was the dude on the ground was not on the correct frequency but managed to find him and get him to hold on the threshhold while i hadto hop over him as i had a dead engine the other was also a person back tracking and they did not ask first and as he turned onto the run way we eyeballed each other all i could do was leave teeth marks in the seat but the dude turned onto the long grass on the side of the runway, he later apologised for the mistake. Both were mistakes but in my opinion the person on the ground needs a good slap on the wrist at least

Good airmanship starts when you are arriving at the airfield and does not end cos i am in a hurry to get home that only gets somebody DEAD

Sorry i hate bullies and anybody who thinks the sun shine outa ......

Yea yea going to take a chill pill now and slowly drink my coffie

Flame suit ready

[saraf]

Hi Morph

It would have been much faster to taxi to the holding point as he was a mere 20m from it.

this is Why accomodated THEM in the first place, All the other gyros (THAT FOLLOWED HIM) was allready at the holding point when I turned finals and he was infront of all of them. he would have been at the holding point and out of the way before i turned finals , but no, he still decided to comence with his take off.

This is what pissed me off.

I did him a favour by accomodating him to taxi.......

[Arnulf]

Hi,

I think in this whole thread, we are missing the bigger picture. It is not really a right of way, or airmanship problem. These are possibly only contributing factors to this incident. The problem lies somwhere else.

Daar was een aanloop baan en geen taxi way en 25 vliegtuie wat die middag almal n draai wou gaan vlieg.

I believe this was an organised event.

If I understand correctly, the incident took place at the SAGPA agm.

Did the organisers of this event have a plan how to cope with the amount of aircraft at the airfield? Obviously not.

Na die insident het ek iemand gevra en dit is toe gedoen.

Instead of trying to sus out with emotions who caused this incident, and to apportion blame, would it not be better to find ways in preventing such incidents in the future.

If such an event is planned, the organizers should consider appointing a "Safety officer", ideally a pilot. Procedures for arriving and departing aircraft should be laid down, and all participating pilots briefed.

Regards,
Arnulf

[Biggles]

Saraf

Don't worry the guy was in the wrong, you did the right thing, he got arrogant on the radio infront of a whole bunch of other people that also know what the rules really are. Chances are half the serious gyro comunity saw it and was proberbly thinking exactly what you were thinking when you say that egg beater line up infront of you.