What are the risks, insurance cover wise, of taking a PAX up

[Graham Speller]

GRaham,

Can you tell us if a pax's generic life / disabilty policy would cover in the event of a spontanious recreational plane accident?

Hyperthetically, he has gone on a random flip and not now partaking in regular 'flying', extreme diving, similar to climbing on a theme park ride. He can't surely inform his insurance before hand each time for clarity.

I presume once they have settled the widow, they're coming after the pilot for re-imbursement. in which case, how much value does the generic R 4 mill public liability cover hold that we (pilot) seem to get with our life policies?

Thanks,

Hi DVV

In general terms, as I understand the life assurance business (but I'm not directly involved in it), the position is as follows:

(a) Any pursuit which you follow is covered provided that, at the time you arranged the coverage, you disclosed it if it was an existing pursuit (and if the application called for that information). However, if you decide to start flying, for example, 2 years after arranging life cover, your cover will still apply. The same goes for ad hoc flights in trikes, bungee jumping, tandem parachuting, etc., etc. All covered, provided it was disclosed, when asked, if it was an existing pursuit at the time the cover was arranged.

(b) However, if you then apply for new or additional coverage, or want to increase the sum assured, you would need to disclose your (new) pursuit (if asked), in which case special terms and conditions may be applied.

(c) If your life cover includes an accidental death benefit (in addition to the normal sum assured...sometimes known as "double indemnity"), the accidental death benefit may contain an exclusion relating to hazardous pursuits and may, in fact, exclude aviation altogether (except as a passenger on scheduled airlines, etc.)

So it's always a good idea to check before doing anything dodgy, just in case. You may not need to do anything more than read your life assurance policy (if you can even find it!). It's always better to know ahead of time, rather than possibly leaving your family with less coverage than you intended in the event of your demise.

Again in general terms, and bearing in mind that I am not involved in the life assurance business, as far as I am aware life assurers do not normally acquire rights of recourse following payment of a capital benefit (i.e. you're dead and they paid your wife/estate R5m). I'm sure there's a legal reason, but I have no clue what it is!

So, if you're the pilot and your pax is killed through your negligence, it won't be a life assurer that comes after you. But it might very well be the pax's family, estate, etc. and their claim against you would not be lessened because the pax had the foresight to arrange life assurance.

I'm not sure what you mean by public liability cover as part of a life policy? I'm not aware of any life policies that include public liability cover. They are two completely different animals.

I've just checked my own public liability policy (I'm with Mutual & Federal) and there is a clear exclusion relating to liability arising out of the ownership or operation of aircraft, amongst other things. So I don't think that your public liability cover, which you get as part of your personal lines insurance, will help you in the event you are sued for negligent flying which causes a loss.

Hope this clarifies? Can you give me a bit more info about your "...generic R 4 mill public liability cover hold that we (pilot) seem to get with our life policies"?

Cheers

[Tumbleweed]

Hi,

When I've signed up life policies, I've been offered a public liability of e.g. 4 mil, which covers against (inconsequential) claims i.e. my dog bites the neighbour, my wall falls on the dutbin man, my 4 yr old releases the hand brake in an inclined parking just to check the reaction on everyone's faces, my brat builds a bomb and renovates the neighbour's house.

Basically (now that is dangerous) should anyone claim from me, this policy should kick in.

I still believe, that if an accident is analysed and no fault can be pointed due to incompetance or direct negligence, then I don't see a claim being successfull against me.

Sorry to harp on, but if someone has conventional life cover (Sanlam) and takes a once- off ad hoc trike flip with me, wind blows us during landing and we bounce into a flip, will his policy pay his dependants out?

[Graham Speller]

When I've signed up life policies, I've been offered a public liability of e.g. 4 mil, which covers against (inconsequential) claims i.e. my dog bites the neighbour, my wall falls on the dutbin man, my 4 yr old releases the hand brake in an inclined parking just to check the reaction on everyone's faces, my brat builds a bomb and renovates the neighbour's house.?

Most public liability policies exclude anything to do with motor vehicles, so your handbrake example might not be covered. You need to check the wording or speak to whoever sold you the policy.

I still believe, that if an accident is analysed and no fault can be pointed due to incompetance or direct negligence, then I don't see a claim being successfull against me.?

Generally, a passenger would need to prove you were negligent, so your statement is correct. However, if your plane, whilst in flight, landing or taking off, causes damage on the surface (ground or water), Section 11 of the Aviation Act stipulates that the registered owner of the 'plane will be strictly liable as if the damage were caused by his negligence, even if it wasn't. That's what we refer to as third party liability.

In either case, you could be sued and the cost of defending yourself (and proving you weren't negligent to a judge) could be very high, so there's no real substitute for adequate insurance or, in the absence of insurance, simply not carrying pax. The third party liability is easier/cheaper to insure.

Sorry to harp on, but if someone has conventional life cover (Sanlam) and takes a once- off ad hoc trike flip with me, wind blows us during landing and we bounce into a flip, will his policy pay his dependants out?

Yes. But, as I pointed out, if that conventional life cover included an (additional) accidental death benefit, that part might not pay out, but the basic life cover would.

DVV (and anyone who reads my comments), please note I am not a life assurance specialist, nor am I an attorney, so please do not rely on my comments in this forum without first seeking qualified advice.

Neither I nor the forum administrators accept any responsibility, legal or moral, for any (in)actions you take based on my informal comments here.

[Loco]

Hi, anybody perhaps have a template for taking up a pax i can just print out please?

Many thanks
Ant

[Loco]

Found a nice template here: viewtopic.php?p=40606