AEROCLUB SA NON-DELIVERY

[mcfly]

Hi Guys

I don't fully agree with Asterix in regard his statement that " the rest is a nice to have" as long as he has his ATF and license is valid. This statement is fine when all is well and running well, but disastrous when impositions are forced onto pilots on an adhoc basis. Then..! all of a sudden all the affected and hard-done by individuals are up in arms with all and sundry.

Asterix!..please remember that an organisation such as MISASA is YOUR voice as part of a collective body who on YOUR behalf will alter and adjust any regulation deemed to affect YOUR right to enjoy YOUR chosen sport.
I am involved in the Motor Industry as the National Chairman of a major employer body and this very same attitude is manifested by individuals in that sector who constantly are of the opinion that these organisations/bodies don't do anything for the membership,UNTIL THE CHIPS ARE DOWN!! But to be apathetic when all is well, is likened to driving through a tunnel with your lights off. MISASA, through it's membership are there to ensure that we all are able to voice our opinion COLLECTIVELY. Think about this statement for a while and do a bit of introspection regarding your perception of "OUR COLLECTIVE VOICE!!"
My 2cents worth

[Jean Crous]

John, and the rest of MISASA, i certainly agree with your system and appreciate the time you guys put in selflessly to represent us LSA/microlight pilots.
Thanks guys
Jean Crous.

[Thatchman]

EISH

James thats a bit of a narrow view but we all entitled to our own opnion.

[Hazzard]

I would like to keep this short and focus upon the core of our discontent.

You as a microlighter enjoy a sport that has risk. As a responsible person you need to afford your family comfort in the unlikely event of an accident. This is what insurance is about.

Your plane must have an authority to fly - this means that it is airworthy. The certification thereof - is like a company audit - reasonable and due care must be exercised by a certified individual in the examination of the aircraft. If your accident is, for example, the result of a defective part of the airframe (say) and it can be proven that this was present at the time of your AP (say 3 mths ago) then your family have grounds to sue the AP. This is the comfort that you have in addition to personal insurance etc. Yes, you must preflight your plane. Allow me an analogy - if a company commits serious fraud - it is the responsibility of the Directors and they can be held accountable but the auditors too can be sued if a reasonable audit should have discovered the irregularities. In the same way the pilot is responsible but the expert that certified the plane too may be held liable. The AP does the work because he knows that the risk that he faces is covered by the insurance scheme. The cost of an AP without the scheme would be huge because the AP has little volume to spread the cost over. Having the insurance cover is seen to be so important that it is a reason why you have to belong to MISASA ( you cannot get an ATF without it) because the policy only covers situations where the AP and the member are members of the same organisation that has the policy ie it is not a 3rd party cover such as your plane colliding with a "Jet."

We have had a succession of service delivery issues with the Aero Club. This matter, in our opinion, tops them all. I see it as gross negligence and corrective action is warranted. We have called for a referendum because we seek the opinion of our membership before we embark on what will be an unpleasant course of action. MISASA is the client of the Aero Club not an insignificant subsidiary and we believe that we cannot be treated in this manner for the increased risk exposure that our members have faced whilst this policy has been allowed to lapse is just not acceptable. The position must be fixed immediately and those that allowed this to happen must be called to account. That's my view but we genuinely seek your views before we proceed.

Fly safe
Donald Hicks
Chairman: MISASA

[JvTonder]

I have received my Aeroclub book, thanks, but as off yet no membership card and my details are correct.

Every year I send all my clients a year end letter and sometimes receive "returned mail" up to 11 months later but on checking the postal details they are correct. In fact this happens a lot, or the letters just go missing . You would be surprised to know how often this happens and it happens even more everyday so the SA POST OFFICE must also carry some blame!!!!

Ok found my membership card in side the Aeroclub book

[skybound®]

Why have AeCSA allowed the AP insurance to lapse?

[Tailspin]

Why have AeCSA allowed the AP insurance to lapse?

Skybound

You have hit the Nail right on the head

The attitude of well a claim has never been put against this in the past does not qualify it to be null and void.

Guys what is going on with Aeroclub. We need to address the problems now and quickly.

These are the things we know about, what is happening inthe background that we do not know about

[Hazzard]

The reason for the lapse is given to be that they are seeking better value from the quoted cost of cover. This is a good thing but do you allow the membership to be exposed to the level of risk for the duration that this has been allowed to lapse? Please do have your say. The management are nothing short of being absolute gentlemen but we must have effective management because we really do need to bring all aviators together under the roof of one Aero Club - that is why this matter is important. Please do have your say.

[skybound®]

Thanks Donald. Agree - you do not cancel/not renew your insurance whilst looking for other alternatives. Would be akin to resigining from your job without a new job lined up. Are the APs not driving this issue too? Is it really MISASAs responsibility to drive this? Trying to get a sense as to where the APs fit in at AeCSA.

Picked this up from the AeCSA website dated 26 April 2012. This would indicate that they are addressing the other issues regarding member info etc and that next year it should not re-occur. Does MISASA have information to contradict the below?

Fundi System Info

The system is in full swing having completed Phase 1 and we are busy completing Phase 2.

Problems experienced during the past month:

 Some sections following confirmation for Chairman did not embrace the system and continued to collect fund via their organization. This created more behind the scene engineering, which has been sorted.

 Membership cards are late and for this we apologize. However, we will not experience the same problems next year.

 The Aero Club Year books has been delivered to the bulk mailing company and are waiting for the first batch of bar coded membership cards before being posted to members. We believe members should get the cards before end March.

 Next year as soon as the AeCSA Board confirms the fees the system we can start sending the renewals. Thank you all for your patience and to those that could see the benefit.

 We have sections such as SSSA who will embrace the system as it shows its worth.

[Aero Club Exco]

Statement.

It seems that many are not informed correctly as has been discussed at length at board level.
The members of the board shpuld keep their sections aware.
Clearly this seems not to transpire as it should or members are not paying attention to information diseminated.

The PI policy did not just lapse. It was terminated!!! A decision was made after consultation.

Please note that the policy which was a 10 year old PI policy no longer can cover the requirtments due to changes in what the insurrance industry allows a PI policy to cover.
Please apply your minds.

Negotiations with various different agents /brokers and ultimately the underwriters etc were undertaken. Advice and consultation from senior insurance industry players was sort and taken.

It is not simple or fast!

1. If a policy does not cover the aspects it is supposed to cover then one terminates it and therefore do not waste money needlessly.
2. If the cover that was developed 10 years ago that was believed to be all encompasing is no longer is found under review of policies as is done yearly, it must be rectified.
If the cost is 10 times the amount this presents a serious problem.

It must be realised that this involves the development of a specialized policy and must be negotiated taking time and understanding.
Risk has to be accessed. insurance as vast as what AeCSA could possibly require is not just given "willy nilly" as the possible exposure needs to be thoroughly understood.

Simply the requirements of a simple R16000 PI policy that was manipulated many years ago to fit our diverse aviation requirements no longer provides for the commercialisation of the AP liabilities.
Please note all AP's attending the AP seminar were informed and gave AeCSA mandate to look at options. These have been requested and we are nearing finality.
It will have some finacial effect.

We have been involved with many players and with the underwriters directly and their actuaries required much information, alot of which has only become availiable from RAASA recently. Please note that even the CAA has no record of number of hours flown or flight flown.

This is a problem at the very highest level and is being worked on at GASI, and ILF levels.

Item 2

Please be aware that a postal strike on for the past 6 weeks!!!!
It seems AeCSA must also keep you informed of matters like this which all south africans if they kept up todate with ongoing in SA should know.
Our systems of issuing the cards are as streamline as possible and changes have been made.

EFT payments did have an effect as many members apply and then do not pay or pay via the old bank accounts.
A big thank you to those that did transcat correectly through our Fundi system.

This is not a quick fix matter with many elements to it.
It also does did not help that some sections actively worked at ensuring their members did not use a system that can provide much more intel and capacity for communication than the past access system. Many of the problems experienced by members is attributed to that.

There were role out problems
Which software package gets rolled out without patches and fixes.

Just take a moment to look at your own windows operating systems.
The FUNDI system is the similar, as our needs compared to Cycling South Africa, The Blue bulls Rugby union to name a few are different in many ways and the same in others. Development was needed. It is ongoing.

The developers are working on the the list of issues and have completed many of these.

The newsletter will after last nights board meeting give feedback on the boards matters that are being attended to.
Previously it was aimed at being a positive production which we believe it is.

Communication from Aero Club happens in many ways:

The year book ( NEW) and the feedback that it is good has been large.
The Aero Files ( New)
The Feedback your section heads should desiminate (some do some do not)
The website
Face book ( New)
Twitter (new)

The major problems have been a card.
And the correct data of members.
This still remains the challenges

This is actively worked on daily.
If members use their specialized tokens they can insure their information is up to date.
It really has become simpler.

End of statement

[John Boucher]

I'm caught up in a workshop at the moment but need to comment on the issue of liability...

Given the statement, the lapsing/termination of the policy with the reasons given may suffice for some however the following:

I am an insurance broker and find this situation rather dire - plainly it is a fiasco. The financial resources of the Aeroclub which are in excess of a R 1 000 000 now stands as surety for any possible claim that could arise... or that is what logic would say. The fact of the matter is that should a claim arise, the AP will be left out to fend for himself and then possibly try and recover the costs from Aeroclub. But more importantly, our members families will not enjoy any kind of comfort they would have received should such a policy have been in place. The end result is FINANCIAL RUIN for those getting the short end of the stick.

Sadly the gravity of this issue is not being fully realised! Need I use the Albat accident as an example for liability issues of how person's estates get sued for wrong doing or negligence?

As for the database... it's a nightmare (again)
Membership cards - would be really nice to show the AP proof as opposed to having to phone... but why use AP's if they are not protected anyway!

One big circle....

[skybound®]

How far different is the AP insurance requirement to that of that PI insurance of an AMO?

[Tumbleweed]

Well I enjoyed the beginning of the thread because it highlighted shortcomings and invited interaction to establish a referendum.

This is encouraging because I and I’m sure most of the constituents don’t have a clue of all the nitty gritty issues and this would go a long way towards neutralising the apathy or contentment we have for our committee and its function and performance.

I was going to say that the various subs should be notified to interact here highlighting their shortcomings so that we as simple recreation flyers could understand the issues and challenges, perhaps even e.mailed as many don’t frequent web forums and poled to see if their concerns are heard and the communications channels are intact.

By the way, the other day in my boredom, I read through some old 2010 mags and found the chairman’s issues pretty much the same as today, so I see your frustration.

Then comes a condescending statement from the ‘executive’ about communication shortfalls and lack of understanding which for me puts things into perpective.

“ Exco china,
You’re not in the boardroom now. You’re interacting with the café owners, horse traders, panel beaters, doctors and farmers here who tackle far greater issues than this and just get it done.

Our reps have been on your case for over 2 years and you’re in contempt for arrogance, non-delivery and incompetence for not maintaining simple issues like a membership data base and little cards.

It’s not lekker being a volunteer and having okes continually nag for membership confirmation, for magazines, cards e.t.c. when the mother body is screwing up.

Have you established and passed over the Misasa subs from the unwitting members who have chucked money into your barrel that you don’t even know of?

Have any AP’s carried out their affairs unknowingly without insurance cover? Operating without insurance is plain reckless. Surely as per standard, the insurance company would have communicated well before the lapse date?

Do you draw a salary and does your staff fulfil their job description?

Just remember that paying Aeroclub fees is for most a grudge purchase and if we had the choice, many would probably give more to Misasa and rather join up with Aopa, who at least seem to be a bit active- sometimes a little destructive but at least active.

You I think even mentioned on Avcom re some Aopa squabble that you need to communicate more with your constituents so that we know what you’re on about and are indeed tackling issues on our behalf. Unless I’m mistaken, you’ve proved that you can’t or just won’t.

[Gaylord Focker]

Absolutely embarassing and appalling what more is there to say

[vernon11]

Some progress at last



Good Day Vernon



Upon further investigation I have received your POP please accept my sincere apologies.



Kind Regards

Sandra Strydom

011 082 1100

086 635 3755

office@aeroclub.org.za