Help needed on build issues

[Go Vert]

Guys I need some advice/help anything

I have found a nice project and did some research around every aspect before payment. Now some issues have popped up and I need some feedback.

Firstly I requested pics of the project and all relevant info around it. Here are the issues
There has been a few modifications to the airframe, I have sent the pics to the kit manufacturer and he looked at it and confirms that the mods are cosmetic exept one mod where they have changed the total shape of the elv,tailplain and rudder
the kit manufacturer has no build options such as this and cannot say how this will effect the way the aircraft performs. One mod is to the U/C which the manufacturer confirms is a option noffered by another co and is a popular mod on this type.
I will recieve the plans and would want to build another tail section as per plans anyway.

Secondly There is a CAA build number and when I searched the build num on the CAA website two issues come up. This type has two varients type 1 and type 2 to the eye it seems as though they share the same wing but have a different fuz and tail. Now the build is of a type 1 with some minor mods and the manufacturer confirms this, however on the CAA records the build number reffers to a type 2

It seems that the builder has gone through the correct CAA process so far by obtaining a build number, there are also details of the AP who was involved. There is some finishing off to do and then a installation and I would hate to be at the AFT stage only to hit the CAA brick wall due to these irregularities

So who can comment on the issues with this airframe and ether assure me that all is well or inform me that its a no go?

Thanks
Trevor

[Tailspin]

Hi Go Vert

Here are some options you can considder.

1.) Look at why the original owner started to Mod the Tail Was it just cosmetic or did he have a valid reason
2.) The Tail Mod - Are there a set of plans and Drawings for them - i.e. engeneering drawings where the have been tested from what i am reading in your post there are not - my reasoning would be to then go the original route and make the aircraft as per original plans - do not throw away the tail section but keep it maybe half way through you stumble across the reason for the change.
3.) The cosmetic mods are no worries i would keep them but rather go with the original Design
4.) The Build number - what you need to do it study the plans for about a month - and decide what variant you want to build, once you have decided that then you go that route and just carry it over to the CAA like that. Don't try to theorise too much now as you will only hurt yourself.

Build it like you want it. THEN FLY THE DAMN THING

[Go Vert]

Hi Go Vert

Here are some options you can considder.

1.) Look at why the original owner started to Mod the Tail Was it just cosmetic or did he have a valid reason
2.) The Tail Mod - Are there a set of plans and Drawings for them - i.e. engeneering drawings where the have been tested from what i am reading in your post there are not - my reasoning would be to then go the original route and make the aircraft as per original plans - do not throw away the tail section but keep it maybe half way through you stumble across the reason for the change.
3.) The cosmetic mods are no worries i would keep them but rather go with the original Design
4.) The Build number - what you need to do it study the plans for about a month - and decide what variant you want to build, once you have decided that then you go that route and just carry it over to the CAA like that. Don't try to theorise too much now as you will only hurt yourself.

Build it like you want it. THEN FLY THE DAMN THING

Thanks Gavin

Ok I am definately going to build the original tail section as per plan and all the rest are fine but on the build number and CAA, its not a case where two variants can be built but rather two totally different aircraft ( maybe I sould have mentiond this before ) and the aircraft which was built differs from the aircraft refferd to by the CAA build number. The aircraft is completely built so there will be no way to change anything. I just dont want CAA to tell me we cant reg this aircraft as a X becuase the build num describes it as being a Z. I dont want to name the type as if I decline the deal I dont want the seller to have a problem selling the project due to bad publicity around it. But if I could use piper as an example the aircraft built would be a Cub but the build number would reffer to a Tri pacer............Do I have a issue with this project ?

[Tailspin]

What you can do is phone the CAA and say that there was a problem when the build number was issued and that it is incorrect on the papers - it should be possible to then change it over (at nominal fee as usual).
I am not 100% sure but that should not be too much of an Issue as long as the plane was built as per plans and that the serial numbers on the plans etc can be connected to the plane then thered tape should be workable - BUT THIS IS THE CAA WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I would first contact the CAA and see how far you get if you start to Inquire if you get stone walled then i would reconsider proceeding. But hey where there is a will there is a way.

Regards

[Go Vert]

Ok great if there is a way to get it sorted then Im sure it will be do able .

Thanks for the help

[Go Vert]

Ok so I have just recieved another response from the manufacturer in the US I must say that they are on the ball even responding to my questions yesterday being Sunday. It seems as though this is going to be a viable project and we will turn this into a super great aircraft. The aircraft is a Horizon 1 from Fisher FP and will be powered by a type 1 direct drive VW conversion.

[KFA]

Just make sure that you have substantiating data for any mod that is being done. Also make sure that you will not have to do a wing load, it will come as a shocker when the aircraft is built, covered, painted etc and you then have to test it. It could ruin your day

[Go Vert]

Just make sure that you have substantiating data for any mod that is being done. Also make sure that you will not have to do a wing load, it will come as a shocker when the aircraft is built, covered, painted etc and you then have to test it. It could ruin your day

Ja I have thought about that and will have to suck that info out of CAA when the time comes, BTW dont load tests get done after covering as surely this would add to the strength?

Thanks for the feedback Stephan

[Tailspin]

Just make sure that you have substantiating data for any mod that is being done. Also make sure that you will not have to do a wing load, it will come as a shocker when the aircraft is built, covered, painted etc and you then have to test it. It could ruin your day

Ja I have thought about that and will have to suck that info out of CAA when the time comes, BTW dont load tests get done after covering as surely this would add to the strength?

Thanks for the feedback Stephan

Hi Stephan

It would be better to do the load test before you cover the wings but i for one do not want to load my wing and then over stress it and then there are problems down the road, there are other ways of stress testing your wing. One way is t have a test pilot G-Load the aircraft in flight. The CAA will be able to give you the required info.

Tailspin.

[KFA]

Hi Tailspin, I for one am not a big fan of wing load testing in the nornal way especially a wooden wing structure. A wooden wing can easily resist a load but get grain failure and the next time you load it it breaks. A correct wing load is not done level. It has to be done at the max AOA at VA and this could be quite a complicated test setup. I agree with you that a flight test is better as it tests every aspect of the plane in one go and not just sections.

Hi Stephan

It would be better to do the load test before you cover the wings but i for one do not want to load my wing and then over stress it and then there are problems down the road, there are other ways of stress testing your wing. One way is t have a test pilot G-Load the aircraft in flight. The CAA will be able to give you the required info.

It's actually the point I am trying to make. Find out if a load test is required before covering and finishing the plane.

[Go Vert]

It's actually the point I am trying to make. Find out if a load test is required before covering and finishing the plane.

Thanks will get this done, Anyone at CAA in perticular who deals with this ?

[Go Vert]

Dont kwon who to contact so I sent a email to the CAA general email adr will see if it ends up at the right person and how long it takes to get a response

[Go Vert]

WOW got a response from CAA sommer quick

They have the following to say

The aircraft will have to be tested as well in terms of requirement contained in Part 24.01 and supported by the Technical Standards CATS-NTCA Part 24.01.2.A.7. for amateur built aircraft.

If someone can simplify that for me I will only have the time to check out act tomorrow afternoon.

Great news I have condluded the deal with the seller and will be collecting my runabout airie next weekend if the weather on the east coast allows me to. super stocked right now

[Tailspin]

WOW got a response from CAA sommer quick

They have the following to say

The aircraft will have to be tested as well in terms of requirement contained in Part 24.01 and supported by the Technical Standards CATS-NTCA Part 24.01.2.A.7. for amateur built aircraft.

If someone can simplify that for me I will only have the time to check out act tomorrow afternoon.

Great news I have condluded the deal with the seller and will be collecting my runabout airie next weekend if the weather on the east coast allows me to. super stocked right now

Welcome to the beginning of the end

[sailor]

Hi Go Vert, Congrats and goodluck with your purchase. Tell Glin he can pay my commission into the microlighters account.
Do you perhaps know if the jabbie engine is still availabe?
Don't forget to post some pics of the project.



Louwtjie Vosloo.