MISASA - What do you want us to do for you?

[bobthebuilder]

Hi John,

What can be done to grow the sport in terms of attracting new pilots, and reviving interest amoung those who have been out of flying for a while?
There are nine trikes in my hanger, and only two are active.
It would be nice to see business benefitting too, with new local trike manufacturrers and component suppliers.
Flight schools would benefit too.

What about the previously disadvantaged?

Could we advertise and offer intro flights in various areas accross the country?

[Stephan van Tonder]

I typed a reply yesterday which was promptly lost when I hit submit. I'll try again.
Let's turn this around and ask what HAS misasa done for microlighthing in the last year and what is it that it was designed to do in the first place( it's reason for existance?). As far as I understand it exists becuase there was no formal training methods and no regulation from the then DCA. Misasa was created so that the microlight industry can self regulate and draw up the standards of training and regulating of aircraft and pilots in the microlighting arena. So now that seems to lie in the hands of RAASA(CAA) so currently what DOES misasa do?
a) what does it do for the normal microlighter in the street
b) what does it do for the people in the industry of microlighting - instructors/schools/AP's

In the past couple of years I have been helping out at a flight school doing admin and such. I have seen a massive increase in regluation that has to be followed and it seems totally non-sensical. It looks like the CAA wants to regulate microlighting out of existance. They are now implementing this SMS thing which I cannot see how it will work in a one man show small microlight school. THIS I feel should have been fought tooth and nail by misasa.
In other places micrloights and NTCA aircraft gets treated like they are certified airplanes - you can't do maintenance without an AP signing it out or it has to be done by an AP or AMO. Engine 'recommendations' get handled like it is a certified engine(rotax 912 12 year overhaul for instance) etc.etc. In my mind those are the things that should be taken care of by misasa - where it was always self regulated and done within the bounds of safe flying it now looks like this industry is being handled like a full on commercial flying institution where you have to have a committee to make sure the guy has done a preflight. According to the CAA some 80 schools have closed in the last year. Now I don't know how many of that was microlight schools but that is a very sacry number and if this continues then the thing that forms the basis of microlight flying IE the schools and instructors will be disappearing and so will microlight flying. The school I am helping at has seen it's worst month this last month in 35 years. From having around 35 students on a constant basis years ago to not even 1 last week. What is happening in the industry - isn't that what misasa should be looking at?.

As for the R200 - As far as I know this is the first time the instructors have to pay for the venue hire and meal ever. I have no problem with it and will happily pay it(I'm not an instructor yet but do attend so actually don't mind) - but is misasa at least helping the instructors that has to travel up in some way - These are the people that needs to be looked after - they are the lifeblood of the industry and without them microlight flying will disappear altogether. That was what I was hinting at - hopefully the money that would usually have paid for the food and venue was applied to assist with travel perhaps - otherwise where did the funds go?.

[John Boucher]

@ Stephan - I'll compile a reply during the course of the morning and you will most probably get a reply from various members of the committee as well. You do have some valid points however only from a one sided perspective! Also may I remind you that the seminar is for paid up members & instructors of MISASA and not a free for all.... but rather a complete reply than snippets!

@ bobthebuilder - The wheels are turning iro of Development of the PD's. There is an on going initiative to rectify this and will also give a more concise reply during the course of the morning!

[Morph]

As for the R200 - As far as I know this is the first time the instructors have to pay for the venue hire and meal ever. I have no problem with it and will happily pay it(I'm not an instructor yet but do attend so actually don't mind) - but is misasa at least helping the instructors that has to travel up in some way - These are the people that needs to be looked after - they are the lifeblood of the industry and without them microlight flying will disappear altogether. That was what I was hinting at - hopefully the money that would usually have paid for the food and venue was applied to assist with travel perhaps - otherwise where did the funds go?.

We had a lengthy discussion about this. It was only the recent years that Misasa paid for the instructors food and venue, however as mentioned funds are stretched. However, my view is an Instructor runs a business, and part of enabling him to run that business is the compulsory attendance to these seminars. It is not Misasa's responsibility to fund this, but rather the instructors themselves. It's like expecting a college to pay towards you attending a course, in order to enable you to do your business. I agree with you that instructors are the life blood of our sport.

Over the previous years Misasa stopped the in house magazine and adopted African Skies to perform the job for them. Unfortunately this was not successful. In the meantime funds built up that should have gone towards the magazine so it was decided that Misasa use these funds to pay towards the Instructor seminars. Last year the decision was made to give back to the member, and the new magazine, along with hats, and stickers etc were sent to existing members. We also purchased Data Loggers, and a scale to improve the running of competitions. These are available to all clubs if they want to run their own competition, in order identify their club champs, in order then to send them to the annual SA champs. We need to attend the world champs in Israel next year, in order for us to hopefully get the 2013 world champs awarded to us.

This year all of the various committee members have submitted their budgets and we should have an idea of what is planned for the year by the end of this month.

[Stephan van Tonder]

Thanks Morph and John for the replies. I'll keep and eye on the thread.

[John Boucher]

There appears to be some serious "hangar talk" at play here?

I find it strange that the whole thread has received positive feedback, comments & suggestions bar the issue iro of Instructors Seminar.

I too was part of the peanut gallery and quick to crit but have a totally different viewpoint sitting on the committee.

[Nkwazi]

Guys, the money that MISASA has spent this year is unsustainable taking into consideration the current membership levels. Some of the costs incurred this year comprised of the magazine, caps and stickers, competition loggers, scales, deck braiding, CAA costs for the MOP, a donation to keep this site going.

There will be a full income and expenditure statement printed in the next magazine that will be posted out to fully paid up Misasa members.

These issues are all discussed at committee meetings to which all members are invited to attend, I have yet to attend a meeting where ordinary members are present to give input.

[nicow]

How about more competitions?-I want to go to Israel.

[bobthebuilder]

Hi John,

Thanks for your response regarding PD's

I cannot complain about what MISASSA has done for us (remember the 300 hour crank ruling?), and would like to thank you, and the other committee members for the sterling effort that you have all put in.

[Africa]

I have to agree with Stefan here. The sport is becoming over regulated and its obviously loosing interest. This once fun sport where folks could get away from the "BOOK" as alot of oaks call it. I believe in safety as i sat on the Misasa comittee for many years and it does really seem like its becoming a hassel to fly microlights and its not fun. Too many folks pointing the finger and trying to catch out the wrong doers. In the early day as Stephan said, misasa was formed to stand against the DCA and be an advocate for the pilots. Now it seems like they are an avocate for the businesses, making harder to train students unless you are at a multi milion rand facility, or change your own spark plugs and put more responsibility on the pilot/owners shoulders. what are the safety stats now compared to the 90ties? if its a hell of alot safer then the regulating has 100 % of my support but is it really fun to fly thse machines anymore? They now have trikes flying at 100 MPH and cost more than a house. This is also the reason why the training really is becoming strict because at 100 MPH with an aluminium tube infront of you damit you need good training.

The industry is moving away from Microlighting as its becoming too advanced. Maybe misasa needs to have different catorgries in like a true Microlight needs to have a max speed of X and stall speed of X and weigh X amount. and let that catorgory be alittle more self regulated for the middle income guys who want to have fun? But instead now people are too scared to fly anywhere because they may do something wrong and get reported and get their areses handed to them on the forum. I would suggest the comitee to consult pioneers like Mike Blythe, Andy kaspersen, Steve roe, Geoff Dyer, louis Van Wyk and guys like that. They will have great ideas as to what missas can do constructively for the sport. Ask the guys that build the Raptor why they have no more interest in building, its too difficult with all the red tape and crap that they have to obide by and it has not saved anymore lives, all it has done was run people off the sport.

I am a big fan of a Misas comittee, we came up with ideas to attract more members, more schools, more manufacturers and support them. Competitions, seminars, airshows, static displays in malls and expos, have safety discussions on what caused certain accidents and promote safety by suppiorting not policing if you know what i mean. Seems like instead folks want to sit on the beach and write down registration numbers and put it on the net and try embarress oaks that maybe flew lower than the person on the beach would have. ??

why are the student numbers so low?? its because of aall the high costs. When i started training we charged at Sky riders R125 solo and R215 dual on school trike with fuel being R3 per litre. Now its over R1000 per hour. its not the schools but the prices of insurance, costs of aircraft (Rand is strong still) but regular folks cannot afford that kinda money. Also holding folks to engine maint like its a certified engine?? this pushes up the cost of running. and has not saved any lifes unless someone can show me stats. In schools in the 90ties we ran a 503 for 600 hours before a decoke with zero engine probs then it was cheaper to replace trikes. Now folks just cannot do that. So Missas needs to try and keep the costs down in the industry by advocating for the pilots and schools.

Now it may be because the legal system is becoming too westernized where schools and manufacturers are scared to be sued by money hungry lawyers. Missas should have schools backs legally in these instances. Folks these days do not want to assume any responsibility on them selves and their own. I choose to fly an uncertified arie so if the Engine stops why must i go and sue Rotax? BS man, its a mechanical part and they are built by humans who make errors.

get the fun back into the sport.

My 10 cents

[Tumbleweed]

Having met most committee members, I dont doubt their capability and integrity to best decide and act for the silent masses. ( Looking at the detailed and impressive submitted MOP, I'll also remain silent )

That said, Steven raises some good points.

Partularly the rural areas, most flight schools have just shrivelled away. With the ridiculous bearocracy where a full time operation is not sustainable, the one or two man capable instructor who would train farmers e.t.c. early mornings, after work and on weekends has become defunct. These are guys with 1000's of hours- ex competition flyers, flying and training for the love of it.

At the time of my training, there were 5 trikers rostering the old Windlass and sitting ground school on Saturdays with another 5 student ppl's followed by a dop'n chop. This has died a death.

300 hr overhauls on many high mile funtional Windlasses ( they all land up somewhere ) compulsary trike radio licence, ramp inspection requiring aribitory crap like equiptment lists, Ist aid, fire extinguishers, so many hours dual and solo, compulsary cross country to a controlled airfield (thats a 3 hour trip- k@k weather awaits after 11h00)

Some guys maintain equiptment worth millions and can rebuild a 503 and fly in the same day but now have to fly to an AP on type to change plugs. These okes just want to fly around the farm and the dam and have no further ambition other than legally jolling around when the weather's lekker.

Some experienced okes with over 500 hours would rather pull teeth than negociate radio work in a foreign accent in JHB pecial rules and have no intention of ever going there.

They would'nt mind paying membership, would enjoy the mag, see no need to subsitute an AP or intructor's lunch, neither contribute to previously disadvanted development or to forcefully help a competitor to go to Israel.

So, what can Misasa do for them?

John, sharing hangar talk is a healthy way of airing misconceptions and is not meant to question anyones incapacity or input.

[John Boucher]

I would suggest the comitee to consult pioneers like Mike Blythe, Andy kaspersen, Steve roe, Geoff Dyer, louis Van Wyk and guys like that.

@ Africa - I find this comment quite stale... these are role players in their own right, agreed .... but remember we are "the guys like that" bit. Your comment gives the impression that we as committee don't have a clue what it is all about and have to "consult" a higher authority. There is ample experience and expertise in the present committee I may add! The purpose of the thread was enquire from Average Joe - he is the one you want to stimulate recreationally!

I am a big fan of a Misas comittee, we came up with ideas to attract more members, more schools, more manufacturers and support them. Competitions, seminars, airshows, static displays in malls and expos, have safety discussions on what caused certain accidents and promote safety by suppiorting not policing if you know what i mean.

Now this makes sense!

John, sharing hangar talk is a healthy way of airing misconceptions and is not meant to question anyones incapacity or input.

@ Tumbleweed - but I agree sir... just don't persistently do it in your own hangar with the same acquaintances on a daily basis!

May I ask this - if any one of you had the opportunity to serve on the committee (or again) would you - without compensation, an extra grand or more on your cellphone, begging for content stories for the mag, organising events, taking leave from your paid jobs, forfeiting time from your families and so on and so on... and one wants to squabble about R 200... we are clearly not on the same page here!

I really do appreciate the positive comments and suggestions!

[ystervark7]

Without repeating the same things I want to give my support to every thing that Africa and Stephan said about over regulation.
What should be done:
MISASA should more actively oppose CAA's over regulation of microlight flying. I know that this is frustrating - I have been trying for months to just get a build number out of them, it can not be that difficult, can it? CAA stand in front of the meetings saying how they want to work with the flying community but they must be joking if this is what they call working with the flying community. James wrote a long article a year or 2 ago of how they tried to change some things in the past but CAA people does not show up and the next meeting is always scheduled 3 months later. We do not want another meeting in 3 months, we want it changed in 3 months.

I personally do not think that the present rules are fixable, they should be rewritten. Why do we still have a rule to carry strips that were useful in 1945 but no rule to have a cellphone which is 100 times more useful today? (Well this rule might not even be applicable to NTCA but some inspectors still insist on them)And there are many of these...

MISASA is on the right track with the MOB but be careful, at this point it looks to me as if they are simply passing the responsibility of enforcing the rules to MISASA ( do the dirty work) without any power to change the rules (the MOP simply refers to the old rules). Therefore I would like to see MISASA insisting on been given the power to make and enforce the rules. With this will also be the responsibility for safety which should always be our priority.

Please MISASA, do not just becoming CAA's lap dog. Insist on changes and not just meeting after meeting with no results.

[John Boucher]

Therefore I would like to see MISASA insisting on been given the power to make and enforce the rules. With this will also be the responsibility for safety which should always be our priority.

Shot Ystervark... the MOP is the first step required before initiation of an ARO. The goalposts have been persistently moved by certain powers and hopefully this will be over after the recent submission.

SAFETY being our priority is of paramount importance... hence the S&R initiatives for starters!

[Africa]

[quote]
@ Africa - I find this comment quite stale... these are role players in their own right, agreed .... but remember we are "the guys like that" bit. Your comment gives the impression that we as committee don't have a clue what it is all about and have to "consult" a higher authority. There is ample experience and expertise in the present committee I may add! The purpose of the thread was enquire from Average Joe - he is the one you want to stimulate recreationally!

No John you mis understood my point. I was not saying that the comittee was clueless, i was simply stating that the comittee has asked for input on this forum so we are giving input. I simply think that the "fun" needs to be brought back into the industry and when the above names were mentioned the industry was growing and booming so its abvious that maybe Missasa should consult them on what worked so well in the past and incorperate it into the present. There is no shame in consulting people that were involved when the industry really boomed. it also has nothing to do with the curent comittee not doing something right. i know 90 % of the people on the comittee and they are all very good and experienced people/leaders in the country, but a different path needs to be followed to grow it don't you think? The magority point of my post was meant to say that Missasa should represent the everyday pilot and help grow the sport even if it means going against the grain of CAA.

I admire you all for volunteering this work for free and I support you all 100% but if you ask for a comment or an opinion then be ready for all kinds..LOL