Pietenpol Aircamper

Aircraft Projects Underway or Completed

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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Tailspin » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:31 am

Oldtimer wrote:I will have to do a crash course in applying the local dope with a colour tint, specifically where applying two or more colours per panel is required.

I think a weekend or so's apprenticeship in the presence of some master applicator will be the answer.

Anybody in Gauteng willing to put up with a middle aged person looking over his shoulder, offering assistance where none is needed, asking too many questions and in general just irritating the s***t out of him for a couple of days? -0< -0<

It will have to be over weekends as I still have to attend to my day job from Mondays to Fridays.
OldTimer

I am busy with a wing currently and you are very welcome to come and have a look see and ask all the questions in the world.

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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Oldtimer » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:16 pm

Gavin,

Thanks for the offer, I will phone you to make arrangements and get directions.
Johan De Graaf
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby swiftprop » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:32 pm

Lokks like a very nice project. There are two in Oudtshoorn fitted with Toyota diesel engines. Apparently lighter than the original For engines. Keep us posted1
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Oldtimer » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:18 pm

Swiftprop,

I have never even dreamt of a Toyota Diesel engine. Who can I contact to get more info on which diesel, how it was modified etc.

This will be interesting!!!

I should start working on the Piet in about two weeks time, the new bathroom is taking longer than I thought and I will have to complete it before enjoying the Pietenpol.
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby swiftprop » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:11 pm

Hi Oldtimer
You can get hold of Coenie Otto at Lumber City George 044 874 2924.
Good luck
Best Wishes
Andre
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Oldtimer » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:24 pm

Swiftprop/Andre,

Thanks for the contact details, I had a loooong and very interesting discussion with Coenie this morning.

He is going to forward me more info on his diesel setup. He used a 2C Turbo motor but recons he should have used the 3C turbo for that little bit of extra torque. He also recons that the turbo makes the engine operate well at any height above sea level as the manifold pressure can be controlled.

Greetings

Johan De Graaf
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby swiftprop » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:01 pm

Hi Johan
It's a pleasure .Keep us posted.
Best Wishes
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Oldtimer » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:25 am

Bryan,

I have just finished the bathroom for the wife (refer to the first post on this forum) and from Saturday onwards I will be spending my weekends in the hanger.

I will try to get Col. Joost Cloete out to the hanger on Saturday to do an initial check of the work done to date and will take it from there to decide what to do first.

Pictures will be forthcoming as I continue.
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby smallfly » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:11 pm

Hi Oldtimer

Do you have any figures on the 2CT's performance in the Piet ?

I have for a long time believed that diesel is the way to go for airplanes, in fact it was used in WWII planes,

don't know why it was discontinued.

I have used a 2CT in an old Isuzu bakkie and was not realy impressed.

It only gives you 121nm at the flywheel wich is very underpowerred for a 2 litre turbodiesel, albeit mechanically pumped.

The turbo kick went by barely noticable, wich gives me the idea that it is using a low pressure turbo (0,7-0,8 Bar),

however, this can be adjusted, but I never went to the trouble.

An intercooler will make a big difference as well.

121nm should compare very well performance wise with the 123nm of the ford bulletbox usually installed in the pietenpols,

however my choice would be the 1700 tdi used in the Corsa, it is physically a smaller engine,

and although I do not know the figures, I would presume it would be lighter.

I am refering to the mechanically pumped version, delivering in the region of 150nm,

wich is about comparable to a 2litre VW.

Looking foreward to this project, it should be a very interresting one !!

PS Keep in mind that diesel freezes below 5 degrees celsius, use Jet A1 and two stroke oil 100/1 mixture.
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Rudix » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:54 am

smallfly wrote:PS Keep in mind that diesel freezes below 5 degrees celsius, use Jet A1 and two stroke oil 100/1 mixture.
Does it freeze at such a high temp? I don't think so, never had a problem in my car, even at -7.5C the other morning it started on first turn. Diesel is an oil after all so freezing should not be a problem.

Jet A1 would be cheaper if you could source it easily.

Fly safe,
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby smallfly » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:54 am

Does it freeze at such a high temp? I don't think so, never had a problem in my car, even at -7.5C the other morning it started on first turn. Diesel is an oil after all so freezing should not be a problem.

Jet A1 would be cheaper if you could source it easily.

Fly safe,
Rudi[/quote]

If the car sleeps in a garage it makes all the difference, and most modern diesels have a pre heating system with the diesel line running through the heater pipe for about 15cm.
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Rudix » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:35 am

smallfly wrote:Does it freeze at such a high temp? I don't think so, never had a problem in my car, even at -7.5C the other morning it started on first turn. Diesel is an oil after all so freezing should not be a problem.

Jet A1 would be cheaper if you could source it easily.

Fly safe,
Rudi
If the car sleeps in a garage it makes all the difference, and most modern diesels have a pre heating system with the diesel line running through the heater pipe for about 15cm.[/quote]

No, it sleeps outside (aircraft in the garage!) and the temp was the car's outside temp. If diesel froze that easily surely it would freeze all the way back to the tank?

The way I understand it that there could be water in the diesel, more than in A1 and that is what freezes. Oil does not freeze..... I will put some diesel in the freezer and check vhpy

Edit:

Ok, from Wiki:

"Like most fuels, diesel is a mix of hydrocarbons, and the components have different freezing points. For Number 2 diesel, as the ambient temperatures drop toward 32 degrees F (0 degrees C), it begins to cloud, due to the paraffin in the fuel solidifying. As the temperatures drop below 32 F, the molecules combine into solids, large enough to be stopped by the filter. This is known as the gel point, and generally occurs about 15 degrees F (-9.5 degrees C) below the cloud point.
This wax then forms a coating on the filter which results in a loss of engine power. The same thing happens on starting an engine when the temperature is below freezing. The filter becomes almost instantly coated with wax - usually, enough fuel gets through to allow the engine to idle, but not attain operating RPM. There are two common ways to overcome this: one is a diesel additive, the other is a fuel heater.
In Alaska and other colder climates, lorries are running regularly at minus 51 degrees or lower so as you see it depends on additives and heating but to freeze as in turning solid you would need laboratory conditions as nature cannot go cold enough to freeze to a low enough temperature."


So the problem is waxing not freezing, I suppose heating the filter might solve this.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic." ;)
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby smallfly » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:09 am

Yep, you got it right, the diesel macs refer to it as freezing, but it does not turn to ice.

It turns to gell, and clogs up the fuel line and filter. Did not know about the wax.

You could go the route of heating and additives, but I would feel safer with JetA1.

Personal choice I suppose, would just be bad to hear of a homebuild falling from the sky because of this.
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby Oldtimer » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:07 pm

Update!!!

Eventually I got to the point where all outstanding weekend commitments (ie. promises to the wife) were taken care of and I could start spending time with the Pietenpol.

I collected most of the metal fittings from the hangar to have them painted.

The empennage is coming along very nicely with the fresh coat of varnish added.

I sanded all of the ribs for the main wing yesterday and brought them home for the varnish coat.

My Corvair engine is now more than a dream as four were sourced in the USA via Philip from Bundu aviation and are being sent to the RSA by container, along with new gasket sets. I believe all four have already been allocated. The initial payment was also made so the transaction is secure. This means no more speculating on what type engine to fit in the Pietenpol.

I contacted Stef Papendorf from Buffelspoort about the three peice main wing and he offered me a copy of his plans, although I have decided to stick with what I have and build the single piece.

Wollie, thanks for the surprise visit yesterday at the hangar, it was really good to see you again.
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Re: Pietenpol Aircamper

Postby WollieW » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:10 pm

My pleasure sir! Will be nice to visit you from time to time
Wollie

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