Ian's Savannah Project

[Ian]

Looks great... how long till it is done

Hi, thanks, your question is hard to answer as:

1. I'm told (and I believe) the last 20% takes around 80% of the time.
So far I have well over 400 hours (guess Im a slow builder on average) so who knows ...
Quite a few guys are flying after 350 hours...
2. I have a great aerie that I fly now, and my primary passion is to fly.. so I dont spend all weekends etc building.
3. Still waiting for the motor, only ordered recently.
4. I dont intend to build another one so the longer this takes the longer I enjoy it...

But, it is very nice when a milestone is reached..


Cheers ian

[Tailspin]

Hi Ian

Really looks great man i am really impressed. Looks like i am gonna haveto pull finger to get finished soon.

Enjoy dude, it really is worth it

[RudiGreyling]

Hi Guys,

Last night I visited Ian to go see his project first hand, before he paints it.

I wanted to go and see the quality and completeness of the kit, compared to my RV kit.

Firstly Ian is doing a great Job, taking care with everything he does.

Secondly the kit is very complete, a lot of things are done for you, sometimes things are a bit more complete out of the box compared to my RV.

If anyone is thinking of building an airplane for the first time I would highly recommend them to try their hand at this kit first, before going onto something bigger.

It is cheap, complete, matched hole and will take less than 500 hours to build.

This comming from a man that has invested 1250 hours in his RV and is only 1/2 way there...i.e will take 5 times longer to complete i.e. 2500H

Well done Ian, and good luck with the rest of your project.

Kind Regards
Rudi

[Ian]

The day finally arrived to paint the fuselage. Paint shop busy so flying surfaces will be done early January,
but by painting the fuselage now I can have plenty fun over the December AWOL from work times.

This is before ...



6 Hours later this is after... Colour is called 'Cream Buttermilk' .
Paint is Spies Hecker 2K.



I decided to paint the engine mount and firewall the same colour ..
was a tip from my AP to have a light firewall then you can see any fresh leaks etc.



Cheers ian

[RudiGreyling]

Looks very nice Ian,
Are you happy with the way the Spies Hecker 2K came out? What did they use as primer?

What is next, fitting the engine to the fuse?

Regards
Rudi

[Ian]

Looks very nice Ian,
Are you happy with the way the Spies Hecker 2K came out? What did they use as primer?

What is next, fitting the engine to the fuse?

Regards
Rudi

Hi Rudi, yes VERY happy with the result. Primer is a 1K Spies Hecker etch for allie (grey in colour). Preparation is the key, plenty washing etc.. Painting is done in a spray booth, then baked at 70deg after final coat.

I dont think this booth will be big enough for your RV though (its 6m long).







Cheers ian

[RudiGreyling]

COOL Pictures

[Griffin]

Looking good Ian. Could you tell use more about your choice of paint? Any idea of what it will add to the weight of the plane?

[Ian]

Looking good Ian. Could you tell use more about your choice of paint? Any idea of what it will add to the weight of the plane?

Hi Griffin, good question as I found one spends a huge amount of time researching this (what I know about paint is dangerous ).
The East London agent (John Waterson) uses Plascon strontium chromate primer then Max Meyer 2k.
2K is used on motor cars and is very tough (paint plus hardener is mixed with thinners) and even tougher if baked for a while.

At the end of the day the paint shop determined the make of paint (Spies Hecker), they spray top brand german cars with this paint.
I understand PPG, Max Meyer and Spies Hecker are among the top 2k automotive brands.

Re Weight - Used around 2-3L of primer and around the same for the top coats, including overspray (wasnt much, these guys knew how to paint) for the fuselage, doors and top cabin cover.
So add 50% hardner (top coat) and say 10% thinners I get 7.8 litres tops which is say max 8Kg. I guess the flying surfaces will use a bit more paint..

I will be able to get a better idea of paint weight once all is done as I have weighed all extras like the cubby hole, additional dash brackets, front wheel axle reinforcers etc. then compare to the average Savannah weight.

I must mention the masking - used a masking tape made by Wurth. Amazing stuff, it stayed on the Lexan windows through primer, washing & flattening and the top coat.
Came off with no problems not leaving a mark. The paint stuck very well on the Lexan. :D

Is this the info you were after

Cheers ian

[RudiGreyling]

Hi Griffen,

I'll jump in here as well, If Ian allows me, not wanting to hijack his thread....

Generally 2K paint is used on cars, and generally a car has a life expectancy of 10 years. Specific Airplane paints costs much much more, but are generally a little more robust, since airplanes stand outside in the weather for long times, and typically has a lifetime expectancy of 20+ Years, well the blik aeries at least.

That said, if you plan to hangar your airplane, and polish it every now and then, there should be no reason that a VERY good 2K paint should also last 20 Years. My old nissan 1400 Bakkie still looks good after 20 years, and gets a polish every year.

2K just gives you much more freedom of colours and choiches, and panel beater spray painters are very comfortable to paint it and gaurentee it. Because it is easily avaialable It works out cheaper as well. If you want to use Aircraft paint you are limited in your colour choices, places to get it from, and places to go to spray paint it, cause not everyone is comfortable and experienced with it to give you a gaurantee on the work done. Limited choice and limited places to go to, to get it 'professionally' done, means you pay BIG bucks then.

Kind Regards
Rudi

[Morph]

Ian,

How safe is it to bake the aluminium. One of my mates made his BB dash and sent it for coating. They baked it too hot and the alluminium is now as soft as plastic.

[RudiGreyling]

Ian,

How safe is it to bake the aluminium. One of my mates made his BB dash and sent it for coating. They baked it too hot and the alluminium is now as soft as plastic.

What, some builder must be cheesed off. Morph, what happened exactly and how high did they set the temps? What Aluminium did they use? What did the builder do. Is this for real??

70 Degree C is hot, but not too hot, your engine compartment sees that regularly, and you don't see engines falling of every plane...
Plane sitting in the Sun on a hot day can get 45+ degree C or higher, as well.

Ian, dont they bake cars with plastic trim in there is well?

Regards
Rudi

[Morph]

I'm actually not sure of what aluminium they used but I know it was 1 to 1.5mm sheet. The BB comes with a wooden Ply dash so he was saving weight by going the aluminium route.

The builder was a little peeved and had to re cut a new dash. He obviously did not send it for coating again. I have no idea how hot they baked it.

In the BB build manual they say you must put sunlight soap (the bar not the liquid) on the ali before heating. Then only heat it until the soap turns brown. If it then cools it will retain the original strength. Anything beyond that (the soap turns black) the ali will be annealed and it will go soft.


To me I would not risk baking an entire Aluminium airframe unless they know exactly what temps to use. Seems risky thats all.

[RudiGreyling]

I'm actually not sure of what aluminium they used but I know it was 1 to 1.5mm sheet. The BB comes with a wooden Ply dash so he was saving weight by going the aluminium route.

The builder was a little peeved and had to re cut a new dash. He obviously did not send it for coating again. I have no idea how hot they baked it.

<SNIP>

To me I would not risk baking an entire Aluminium airframe unless they know exactly what temps to use. Seems risky thats all.

Ah, this makes more sense, it was only a instrument pannel, they must have put it into an smaller oven and baked it at 160 degrees and above. Most ali spec sheets I have read, depending on the alu used, things start to 'happen' to some of them from 160 degrees C and above. Like for instance they age the material at 160 degC for a couple of hours after manufacture on the lower temp alu's.

70 Degree C in a big oven like Ian's got no problem, baking like this makes the paint much more durable.

Regards, Rudi

[Ian]

Nice debate Guys,

Here's some fact from the people who know a bit - they have put rockets into space etc..



Their relevant conclusion is below.



my aerie is made of 6061-T6

300 deg F is 158 deg C.

Morph - sounds like your buddy did powder coating ? thats different from baking paint for < 30 minutes.

So as Rudi correctly says I dont think I have a problem... maybe I should be careful about spilling boiling coffee though... just in case

Cheers ian