No Overflying a built up area

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skybound®
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No Overflying a built up area

Postby skybound® » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:31 am

On many issued ATF, there have been the above restriction.

From the research I have done, there is no direct regulation that supports this. The only reference I can find that is probably being (mis)used is

24.02.3 (2)
An Authority to Fly is issued subject to such conditions and
limitations, which may be determined by the Commissioner or, if
applicable, the organization designated for the purpose in terms of Part
149 of these Regualtions, as the case may be.
So do we have this changed, and to what. Or do we continue on the basis of individuals challenging the limitations on an case by case basis?

The above reg I believe just gives too much 'power' to the commisioner.
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:42 am

I have been fighting this for almost 3 years now and no luck. Seems no one wants to take the "risk" of giving permission for built up area overflight. Andre has been rapped over the Knuckles a few times for as he put it "trying to help a couple guys out" so he (and Sandra) will not issue ATF with built up area overflight "for extended periods" as in past. All BS and we have had long debates regarding the fact that even TCA aeries in terms of clause bla bla bla (can't remember no, but something like 91.10 or thereabouts) are limited as to where they are allowed to fly.

1 exception that has been made is for thunder city whose jets are all ZU but operate out of CT and it impossible to clear the built up area. I had same argument regarding ops out of FAGM, FAGC, FAWB, FABB but it is falling on deaf ears.

This may also be one of the reasons IF ATF is so hard to get. Can you emagine telling ATC you can't comply and he needs to vector you around all the yellow patches on the map and re-route all the big iron to accomodate you....

Seems that the fear of doing something wrong is huge... I fail to see the problem as I had the "not for extended period" wording when I originally got my ATF, but since they added night flight I am hitting a brick wall.

My life insurance will have a field day it I am involved in incident and there is any yellow blobs on a map near where it happens..... :? :? :? :?
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Postby lamercyfly » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:57 am

The LS/1, under section 18 microlight Aeroplanes, subsection 18.3 Operational Requirments para 18.3.1(e) ...may not be flown over a built-up area or over an open-air assembly of persons.

This is the only place I have ever found this restriction.

It only applied to microlights, not the entire NTCA.

It has been abused be the issuing authority, and I am sure can be challenged.............It needs to be....

Regards.
David Daniel

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Postby cvh » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:10 pm

And that seems to be the only place, which applies to Weight Shift only, as I understand this. A further restriction was that the Privileges as granted in ANR 8.2(2)(c) are not applicable.

However, in the new regs there are no such restrictions anywhere, except for unpowered aeroplanes/machines. i.e. Gliders & Balloons.

Yes. I too am working on this ... together we'll wear them down yet :-)
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Postby Rudix » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:50 pm

I have a 3 week old ATF that states:

"All flights are conducted under VMC by day and will not be undertaken over build-up areas and open-air assemblies of persons, except for purposes of take-off and landing"

This does give a bit of lee-way !

Fly safe,
Rudi
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:06 am

Rudi

They all say that now. Before they used to say not allowed over built up areas for prolonged period. Now not allowed unless landing or taking off... :? :? :?
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Postby cvh » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:26 am

So, go read those regs again, & tell me where YOU find that this says so anywhere!

Personally I doubt the legality of inserting this wording on this document.
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Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:49 am

cvh wrote:So, go read those regs again, & tell me where YOU find that this says so anywhere!

Personally I doubt the legality of inserting this wording on this document.
Agree 100% - Can't find it. Have debated this adnausium with Andre S at CAA, but no luck in getting the "old wording" reinstated... 3 :evil: years and counting...
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Re: No Overflying a built up area

Postby Eggbeater » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:20 pm

Hi All

I renewed my authority to fly 10 days ago (19th Apr) and the phraseology has reverted to "...and will not be undertaken over built-up areas for extended periods...". The prior year's authority read"...and will not be undertaken over built-up areas...".

So it seems as though the CAA has rectifued the position although this is for a gyroplane and not a trike. I am not sure that it makes very much difference.
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Re: No Overflying a built up area

Postby Goffel » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:48 pm

Show me a regulation that says u cant... :twisted: ... :twisted: ....... :twisted:

Goffel... (**)
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Re: No Overflying a built up area

Postby alanmack » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:46 pm

The story below has some relevance and is offered for those that are not MISASA members. Those that are will find the story below in the Editor Unplagged story in the Xmas 2009 magazine. The one with the kids wearing reindeer headgear on the cover.


Wilbur Wright, from an address to enthusiasts,
September 1901, regarding aviators
who force the boundaries;
“I know them well and they are just the
kind of people to accomplish daring undertakings.
They are apparently without
fear and what they set out to do they
generally accomplish. This recklessness
makes them anything but good aviators,
they simply lack caution”
Cpt. John Cook, British Airways Concorde
Training Captain;
“To learn the discipline of fl ying and to
have the freedom of fl ight you must have
the discilpline”
General Chuck Yeager, aviator extraordinaire;
“I have fl own in just about everything in
most confi gurations, with all kinds of pilots
in all parts of the world - There was
no difference between any of them except
for one unchanging fact: The best,
most skillful pilot has the most discipline
and experience.
Good judgment comes from experience
and experience comes from poor judgment.
There are no accidents and no fatal fl aws
in machines; There are only pilots with
the wrong stuff. Remember, learn not to
be wrong for there is no such thing as a
natural-born pilot”.
With the aforesaid professional sentiment
and reference to AIC 21.3 – CAUTIONARY
NOTICE REGARDING MINIMUM
HEIGHTS, the following presentation reiterates
the hazardous and nuisance factors
associated with LOW LEVEL fl ying.
Statistics have it that the majority of aviation
fatalities occur whilst undertaking
low level maneuvers, these include:
- Misjudged/insuffi cient climb-rate for obstacle
clearance
- Obstacle attention defi cit
- Engine failure
- Wing-tip and rotor strikes
- Lack of maneuvering speed
The law is quite specifi c (CARS part
91.01.10) and states:
‘No person shall, through any act or
omission –
(a) endanger the safety of an aircraft or
person therein, or
(b) cause or permit an aircraft to endanger
the safety of any person or property.
Bearing this law in mind, good airmanship
serves to protect persons, property and
wild animals from the nuisance of aircraft
operating too close to the ground.
More specifi cally, CARS 91.06.32 (summarized
- VFR) stipulates no aircraft -
(a) shall be fl own over built up areas or
over an open-air assembly of persons at a
height less than 1000ft above the highest
obstacle,
(b) shall be fl own less than 500ft above
open ground/water, unless the fl ight can
be made without hazard or nuisance to
person or property,
(c) shall continually over-fl y an open-air
assembly of persons at a height less than
3000ft above the highest obstacle.
Regarding the fl ying altitudes over Nature
Reserves or Heritage Sites, the Protected
Areas Act No. 57 of 2003 stipulates that
the protection includes the airspace up
to 2500ft above the sites and reserves,
except for the purpose of lawfully landing
therein or taking off there from. The
following AICs with their respective coordinates
need to be taken note of in appreciation
of conservation:
• AIC 20.1 – Cape Griffons in the
Magaliesberg
25 51S 27 33E
• AIC 20.4 – Black Eagles in the
Roodekrans Area
26 04S 27 49E
• AIC 20.15 – Buffalo in Pietermaritzburg/
Howick
29 28S 30 18E
Location, Route, Time and Altitude Related Matters
Microfl ight Africa 11
• AIC 20.16 – Shambala Pvt Reserve in
Vaalwater
24 20S 28 00E
• AIC 20.18 – Greater St Lucia Wetlands
28 03S 32 26E
• AIC 20.20 – Bontebok National Park
– Swellendam
34 05S 20 26E
In order to avoid Obstacles, Blasting Areas,
Community Centres and Signifi cant
Powerlines the following AICs are pertinent:
• AIC 20.6 – Zion Christian Church
Assembly
• AIC 21.2 – Ground base explosions,
Bush Air Barberton 25 42S 30 58E
• AIC 21.8 – Danger of power lines,
valleys, gorges and hill crests
• AIC 21.14 – Radio masts, towers and
high structures above 60m (197ft)
• AIC 21.15 – Blimps etc.
• AIC 21.20 – Blasting Areas
• AIC 21.21 – Opencast mines
• AIC 21.32 – SA Mint 25 54S 28 09E
Special and unusual events are controlled
by CAMU (Central Airspace Management
Unit) and from time to time airspace restrictions
are imposed to facilitate safe
skies.
AIC 40.13 – Special and Unusual Events,
CAMU
Having mentioned all of the above, may
all aviators be reminded of the risks
arising from non-compliance whilst low
level and may the following reside in our
mental Head-Up-Display; ‘GO LOW,
GO IN THE KNOW’ for if you don’t
think you’re the best pilot in the business,
maybe you’re in the wrong business. If
you think you could never make a mistake,
you are most certainly in the wrong
business - The thing referred to as luck is
merely discipline and attention to detail,
for to err is human and to forgive divine,
neither of which is the policy of gravity!
NEMO
I have now joined the ranks of wannabe pilots!
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Re: No Overflying a built up area

Postby diagobd2 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:56 am

However, in the new regs there are no such restrictions anywhere, except for unpowered aeroplanes/machines. i.e. Gliders & Balloons.







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