Microlight Weight

[skybound®]

The 450kg still stays from what I can see in 24.01.2.E2 (2) BUT the 'massaging' of weight has been closed off with the way in which the max take off weight is to be calculated.

Basically the formula accordig to the new regulations for a 2 seater is:
MTOW=Empty weight + 2 Pax @ 84 kgs each + 22kg for fuel.

So any 2 seater aircraft with an empty weight more than 260kgs will fall into aeroplane category. This affects quite a few of the higher end microlight aircraft that will now be classed as aeroplane.

I am aware that a 'Sport Pilot Category' has been talked about which may address this sector but I cannot find much about when that is likely to materialise - my gut fell is it wont be in time for 1 Jan 2008 and judging on how long these current regs took to promulgate, it may be some while before this category comes into being.

In the meantime, some will have to get their PPLs to remain legal.

[skybound®]

Just having a look at some of the aircraft that are affected by this weight limit. Below aircraft that will according to their published weights will be an aeroplane and not microlight:

A-22 Foxbat
Jabiru
Sting
Ikarus C42 (Club version)
Cheetah 912 versions
Skyrangers 912 & Jab versions

Suppose plenty more to add to the list.

[TouchNgo]

Skyranger 912 should make the cut off!

Ours came in at 259kgs with a 912 fitted.

[skybound®]

That does lead to to the next question - will they use the kit manufacturers specifications or the actual weight of an individual aircraft?

Pros and cons either way.

I have a feeling if they follow the same route as TCA that it will be manufacturers spec.

[grosvenor]

accordig to the new regulations for a 2 seater is:
MTOW=Empty weight + 2 Pax @ 84 kgs each + 22kg for fuel.

This has in fact never changed; in fact the current formula is more lenient. I still have the LS1 documents where it states that you will use 2 pax @ 90kg each and 22 kg fuel, i.e. EW = 248kg.

Somewhere along the line this seems to have been ignored by everybody incl. CAA since the arrival of the Jabiru 2 seater on the market.

As long as we see the Light Sport category get legislated soon, this should be no problem as it will then seperate the "real" microlight types from the more "aeroplane" types like the Foxbat, Cheetah, Sting, etc. Getting an MPL requires less training than an RPL, and hence the requirement for more basic aircraft.

Dave

[skybound®]

Somewhere along the line this seems to have been ignored by everybody incl. CAA.....

Quite correct , and they even ignored much of Part 24 since it was put into effect a few years ago via the special process in Part 11. But since 'proper' promulgation things as we know have changed somewhat.

With everything going on around us, my money is on the CAA not ignoring it for much longer.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Devils advocate?
What will happen to those guys flying on MPL? Will they have to go PPl and when? I know plenty who are driving 912's on MPL and have no inclination that it is possibly under threat...

PS
What does a GT450 weigh and will it make the 450/260 cut off

[Tumbleweed]

GT 450 912S empty weight = 214 kg
max payload = 236 kg

The brochure concludes; Grand for touring, training, trophies.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Is max payload limit because of 450kg's or lift ability/other?

[skybound®]

I know plenty who are driving 912's on MPL and have no inclination that it is possibly under threat...

I think that their reasoning may be twofold.

Firstly there is a feeling that it will be continue to be ignored and will only become an issue when someone eventually gets challenged on the issue - only then perhaps will we figure out that there is indeed an issue.

Secondly, I think that there may be a false sense of security in that there is this proposed Sport Category being talked about.

IMHO I think that this section is going to be pretty far away until it becomes a reality. There is a process to be followed - Out for comment, Carcom, gazetted for comment, translation into another language etc) One only has to look at how long current regulation making has taken and appreciate that we will be lucky if this new category makes it into our legislation before end 2009 or thereabouts (I am happy to eat my words if I am wrong ).

What do these pilots do in the meantime remembering the acid test of insurance. Forget if CAA or anyone else decides to enforce it - I bet your insurer will.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Agreed. Worrying times, especially if you in wanting to buy a 912 for your newly started flight school....

[Weg]

Secondly, I think that there may be a false sense of security in that there is this proposed Sport Category being talked about.

IMHO I think that this section is going to be pretty far away until it becomes a reality. There is a process to be followed - Out for comment, Carcom, gazetted for comment, translation into another language etc) One only has to look at how long current regulation making has taken and appreciate that we will be lucky if this new category makes it into our legislation before end 2009 or thereabouts (I am happy to eat my words if I am wrong ).

What do these pilots do in the meantime remembering the acid test of insurance. Forget if CAA or anyone else decides to enforce it - I bet your insurer will.

Skybound,
The details of the recreational pilots licence has already been gazetted - 27th amendment listed on the CAA website on the bottom right hand side under "gazetted amendments ....". So this is coming into effect 01 jan 2008.

[lamercyfly]

Hi folk.

Yup, we know that the 27th amendment includes part 62, but so far I have not found any reference to LSA................

It is worrying to know that the fine system has now been promulgated...........Expect CAA to start showing her teeth in the new year...........

I would love to help with this LSA one, but my hands are full with microlights..............

later,

[skybound®]

Skybound,
The details of the recreational pilots licence has already been gazetted - 27th amendment listed on the CAA website on the bottom right hand side under "gazetted amendments ....". So this is coming into effect 01 jan 2008.

Weg if you believe the LSA is in there, please provide us some reference to it.

I cant find any reference to it in part 62 (or any other part). As far as I know, the regulations have not even been written yet, and it is only at a conceptual phase, where the motivation is being put together as to if and why we need such a category.

[Sonex711]

Where's our fearless leader, mike2flyfar. I understood from mails I have that this is definitely in effect from 1 Jan 2008. Starting to get slightly worried...