Should joining a representitive body be compulsory?

[Morph]

Oddball asked us to put this poll up. If you disagree with the choices or have any comments post a reply.

[Morph]

And for the record I am also prepared to volunteer my services on the commitee for this body

[RV4ker (RIP)]

And for the record I am also prepared to serve on the commitee for this body

Ditto.

[Morph]

Additionally as a thought

I have the technology to process monthly payments i.e. debit orders instead of one hefty annual payment. R70 per month covers the R800 a year including switching costs. Much more palatable.

[Oddball]

Thanks guys! Lets see the results for the poll and I will also contact you separately and note your offers to the committee next week at our first meeting.

[Tailspin]

Hi All

Being a President of EAA Chapter and Vise of EAA SA i say it is very inportant to be a member of a body that can take the fight up for you. I am a Member of MISASA and EAA and Aeroclub etc and it does get a bit costly but i think it is inportant that you belong to atleast one body that can represent you when the time comes and i think the top level should be shuffeled on a regular basis like the president of the EAA national can only be president for a Year and not two consecutive years and on a chapter level he can only be president for 3 years. This keeps the guys on their toes and then there can not be a control loss in the organisation BUT the MEMBERS need to stand up and be counted even in the smallest roll even for a year will help

[Wart]

Why are we looking at another "body"?

Come on guys throw your support behind MISASA!!!

[KFA]

This flying thing will end up like politics. If a South African lands on a deserted island he will form three churches and five political parties. Lets put our weight and money behind MISASA and stop this yapping. If everybody joined then we wouldn't be like a yapping volksie but a pitbull to reckon with. Forming other bodies will just send a message that we are not united in our cause and nobody will listen. My 2c Come on guys.

[Fairy Flycatcher]

I just think that it has kind of been proven over the years that MISASA does not work in its current format. It drains the energy out of a few and get very little results, as the 'We are just volunteers' phrase gets re-hashed.

It is time for some sort of urgent change. For years I have not had a single reply from Neil de Lange and lately not even from Mike Blyth, and now suddenly, after David's e-mail they are going all out, there is a tremendous burst of energy. These waves of all-out support for MISASA and then months of nothing, its what MISASA has been about for a long time.

It is also my opinion that Trikes should be represented by their own body, and if possible, work together with Aero Club to achieve ideals, but not be autocratically controlled by Aero Club, or as my experience has been, hindered by Aero Club.

Saying we are going to through our weight behind MISASA? What does that mean? Who and what is MISASA, and if it has failed us after so many years, why do you think it will save us with 6 weeks to go?

MISASA has presented itself as the representatives of Microlighting at CARCOM, and we have had representatives there who do not know the law, do not know the industry well enough and did not consult with the relevant role-players, even when they claimed they did. It is CARCOM's responsibility to consult with roleplayers, and it is my opinion that if Aero Club / MISASA did not mislead CARCOM into believing they represent and consult with the industy, then CARCOM would have been forced to resort to other means of getting proper industry consultation.

I am sure those people did what they thought the right thing at the time, but it has backfired on all of us.

After well over 3 years of trying to draw attention to part 24 with Neil ( and later Mike), in July Mike Blyth said that when he is back from the World's he will address Part 24. Now he askes 'what's wrong with Part 24?'

This is probably because he is overwhelmed at it all, his own life, business and additional responsibilities at Aero Club and MISASA. I do not blame him, but it still means that the format for support we have at the moment is not working properly, and in effect, has failed us all.

I fly hang gliders, fixed wing microlights, trikes, light aircraft and have my frozen ATP. Yet trikes are still the best way of playing in the sky. I am very worried about where we are going. It has become even MISASA's black sheep - getting less and less of MISASA's already limited time. With this I mean voting in Sport Planes - when only 18 people were at the AGM to vote it in!

I am very happy to support MISASA if we can get it to work, but right now, no.

Anyway, there are bigger issues than this at the moment. The individuals willing to give energy to addressing Part 24 and Part 62, without having to form an organization to do it, please pledge your support. We can sort MISASA / others body out next year when we have laws which allows us to function...

[Chris van Eeden]

Having replied to a similar discussion on SAMicro and it being relevant here, I include the letter I posted there:

Duif,

Having had the privilege to fly in the Czech Republic and meeting their pilots I came under the impression of how much more they have achieved by standing together on all matters pertaining to flying. That little country currently produces 80 Aircraft designs and manufactures many more under license.

They have a culture of "belonging to" Whether it is their Motorcycle, Light Aircraft Association (CLAA) or whatever. They do not ask why, they pay their dues because they know they reap the benefit when they stand together. They have long gone past that critical point where their membership can sustain a professional organisation with knowledgeable officials who work full time on anything Aviation. I suppose they also have their personality clashes, but they work within the organisation that is designed to ultimately protect and aid them. They do not dilute their efforts by splitting up, through in-fighting or by standing on the sideline and shouting at the players.

We had the honor of meeting Mr. Urban of Urban Aviation - designer of the SAMBA and Lambada, on his farm in Usti Nad Orlici. He told us that they (the manufacturers of composite aircraft) have meetings where new technologies and other advances that one of them made, are discussed and shared! This working together, rather than each one going it alone has made their Aviation industry what it is today - one of the most vibrant in the world.

I am of the opinion that our (Microlight Fraternity's) biggest draw back is the fact that we do not pull together. Each guy wants to be more important than the next, he takes shit from nobody and he will not be told what to do, how to do it or when to do it. We have got some ego's so big it is surprising that a Rotax can get them airborne. Here I am pointing the finger to us all, but especially to our more senior pilots. The young guys and gals look up to you - your perceptions shape their views, and your sometimes infectious negativity leave them cynical and suspicious of everything that is being done and achieved.

We pilots need to start working together. If you want to change how things work, join the vehicle at you disposal (in this case MISASA) and use your democratic vote. We need to rise above personal issues / vendettas to make our organisation great. Let's stop the "hardegat" shouting from the sideline and start that culture of belonging to the organisation that is there to represent us. Do not initially ask what you get out of it now, but strive to make it strong through numbers - the stronger we get, the more leverage we have, and the more leverage we exercise, the more visible the effects to our members. I do not doubt the integrity of any MISASA Committee Member past or present, but I do resent the fact that people (from in- and outside of MISASA) are prepared to place personal issues before common ground. We have got a tremendous pool of knowledge and ability out there. I'm pretty sure it is not the membership fee that prevents pilots from joining - so let's set the personal issues aside.

We should not be arguing about having to AP a NON MISASA member's plane or not, or being able to do it "at a certain manufacturer" without having to be a MISASA member. If you were a Czech pilot looking in, I am sure you would see how petty we have become - to our own detriment. Our energy being spent is totally misguided

We must instill a culture of "belonging to", of being part of something worthwhile that everybody belongs to - because it is the right thing to do. A culture of putting personal gripes aside and believing that although the guys at the helm do not always do it my way, they believe that from their vantage point, what they are doing is for the better of us all. We, the ordinary members have the responsibility not only to support them, but to advise and to provide constructive criticism where necessary and, if they stuff up - elect somebody else!

The Czech's have had 40 years of Communism that prevented them from having a Democratic Aviation Organisation. In the short time since the fall of the "Wall" the CLAA has become a strong and efficient organisation. We on the other hand, have been spoilt. It has been almost 20 years since the first MISASA Committee was elected - and we still squabble amongst ourselves - fundamentally on whether to become MISASA members or not. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

Without exception, the Teams at the 2007 World Champs asked that the 2011 World Champs be held in South Africa again. Why, because we have some of the most fantastic flying to be had anywhere in the world. Believe me, it would cost them a lot more to compete over here than in Europe, but still they want to come! I urge every single Microlight Pilot out there to belong to our Organisation. Lets make it strong and move forward.

We have got everything in our favor - except our pilots!

Chris

[Fairy Flycatcher]

New Zealand, which is very pro-adventure sport, has many bodies representing trikes. I am quite sure that flying there is less restrictive than it is in the Czech republic.

I think our lack in support for MISASA / Aero Club is because we have a lack of results from MISASA / Aero Club, as well as an incredible lack in communication.

Maybe its worth asking the guys in the Czech republic if they have the same problems before attacking our pilots and defending our 'representative body'

We DO have a great country for flying. We have GREAT pilots. We have wonderful aircraft. We have regulatory / support / communication structures which suck.

[KFA]

I still hear yapping. If everybody stopped asking if and why they should join an orginisation and just joined we wouldn't be having this discussion. Sure mistakes have been made, let the past be past. As Chris says there is allways strenght in numbers. 900 out of i don't know, 5000-6000 pilot's is a very low number and then you ask why we don't see the results we want. If all 5000 pilot's paid their subs we could afford to pay people to do the job. The old saying. peanuts and monkeys. They are currently doing the best they can, with the (low)suppport they have.

[Tumbleweed]

I think it's fair to say that if we had a CAA which was proactive, qualified and responsive, we could compare organisations and none of this would be an issue.

Our beaucracy has instilled an unaccountable entitlement only to themselves and if that mindset cannot be changed, we'll always have our backs to the wall.

Vollenteers should only self govern, chuck in a few jols e.t.c. but cannot alone effectively challenge beaucracy with the law. But we can start by identifying the specific problems/ people and contest to their higher body with practical pragmatic alternatives.

If Aeroclub is not living up to the expectations of Misasa would someone speak out?

When all else fails, invite these okes out to a Dop 'n chop, give a flip before they barf and afterwards you can tell them that you made that aerie yourself based on technology approved worldwide.

Finding some common ground to start is probably easier than declaring war with lawyers, or maybe it's too late for that.

[skybound®]

If you look at one of the 'high' times of MISASA was when we had to belong for 3rd party insurance. So it has proved that it does work - strength in numbers.

But it matter not what we feel anymore. From 1 Jan 2008 you will have to be part of a representative body in order to be licenced. Klaar.

Roger over and out

[Fairy Flycatcher]

If people spoke about strength in numbers because they are going to put their 10 hours a week into the sport, that could work. Sending the equivalent R30 per month to a 'body' so that you think you have now 'joined' them, is not strength in numbers. That is just BS' ing yourself into thinking you've done your part.

If an army goes to war, it does not help that the entire population sends enough money for one bullet each. We still need soldiers. That is where there is strength in numbers...

If every single microlight pilot in South Africa joined Aero Club and MISASA today, not one single problem will be solved. Instead, a thousand more would have been created, because of the admininstration which will be involved in processing these applications with few resources...