Joining a Microlight representative body

[Barnstormer]

Not sure whether this should go under another topic, but I see it as hanger talk

Firstly, is it compulsory to join a representative body such as MISASA etc. ? Some say yes, some say no. So which is correct?

Secondly, I personally see much benefit in such a body, but it should be one that looks after one's needs. I am certainly willing to pay monthly/yearly fees, if the body does do what they are meant to.

Now, which bodies are options for microlighters? Trike and 3-axis. And which option would you guys recommend?

I do not see the use of having 6 different bodies (I don't know how many there are) causing more confusion and splitting us apart.

Een drag maak mag! (I don't know the English, but it makes an impression in any language) If microlighters stand together, we have a chance of survival.

So, which would you recommend

[The Agent]

A man's got to do what a man's got to do.

I say we do need to unite and have one body.

Looks like a bit of kak coming our way next year.

[Bubble Guts]

Well I gotta trailer my trike to Durban now coz the local AP will not do inspection on my plane as I am not a member of missasa!!!!
Where it is written that one has to be a member? well Im still searching

[skybound®]

Well I gotta trailer my trike to Durban now coz the local AP will not do inspection on my plane as I am not a member of missasa!!!!
Where it is written that one has to be a member? well Im still searching

You wont find it written anywhere.

Perhaps a good thing that the AP wont do it for you as if he/she is not up to speed on the regulations, what else are they missing? Maybe they are not up to speed on other items like service bullentins, ADs and SBs.

However if the AP is just encouraging you to join a body - that may be his perogative.

All this could be very different from 1 Jan. However it will focus on the pilot and not the aircraft.

[Bubble Guts]

Funny u should mention that...."clearly he/she not up to speed" coz thats not the only issue that came up when wanting my inspection done.

I had to get Solo Wings to send me copies infoming my AP that he was in fact clearly confused about a certain safety wire

Anyway, off to durbs to get it done the right way

[Morph]

Firstly, is it compulsory to join a representative body such as MISASA etc. ?

No not at all

Secondly, I personally see much benefit in such a body, but it should be one that looks after one's needs. I am certainly willing to pay monthly/yearly fees, if the body does do what they are meant to.

Agreed

Now, which bodies are options for microlighters? Trike and 3-axis.

only 1, Misasa

[Barnstormer]

Thx for the info Morph!

Now, don't you just looooove democracy? Everybody votes for the only option

I do not have a problem with only one option, if that option does do what they are meant to.

How about the EAA? Are they an option? Or do they not have any leverage at the CAA? I see, according to the EAA www, they fall under the aero club as well.

Do go and have a look at the Aero Club www at http://www.aeroclub.org.za/ some interesting info there.

Gentleman, and those splendid Ladies who also aviate, I think we need to find a body that communicates and works for us. If it is MISASA, great! How do we get MISASA to include all microlight pilots? Having the AP force the pilot to join by not wanting to sign if the pilot is not a member certainly is not the way to go. (Have you tried to lead a horse to the water and make him drink? It may sound like a smart idea... but it certainly won't work) Earning peoples respect and doing something for the whole community, members and non-members alike, will in my opinin get you much further. Get them to join with added benefits, like the insurance which is already offered.

OK, got to get back to work...

[Oddball]

Hello Barnstormer, and others...

As mentioned before, you do not need to be a member of any organisation in order to have an AP sign your annual inspection off. This used to be the case but has not been for a while now. There is some argument as to whether this should again be the case in terms of the new regulations that will be promulgated in 2008. As far as I know this clause has been removed- I will ask Mike (Blyth) about it and get back to you.

But right now it is not a legal requirement. The MISASA committee generally feels that an AP should encourage a pilot to join MISASA, but not insist on it.

MISASA's constitution has been changed to now include light sport aircraft, which is a new category of aircraft that will come into effect next year (similar to the American LSA category). The name MISASA will stay however (so far there are no suggestions to change this).

The issue of money is somewhat of an interesting point; we do need to gather some sort of collective income from members, but what to do with it? Unless one gets a lot of members (lots of members * reasonable subs, or, few members * high subs) you do not have sufficient money to employ someone to look after the members interests- and it is a full time job for sure. Mike spends a LOT of time working on MISASA matters, and that for free. Sure, he is in the aviation business and may stand to benefit, but unless you can justify the time in this manner you simply cannot spend the kind of time that Mike does spend.

So what to do? If we make joining a body complusory everyone squeals because they are forced to join; if we don't then there's squealing because MISASA are not doing enough to protect the collective interest, even though only a small part of that collective now contribute.

It's either time or money, like most things in life. Either members donate time to look at matters such as the new regs, or they donate money to employ someone to do it on thier behalf. The cry is often, "what is MISASA doing for us." The answer is simple; YOU are MISASA, what are YOU doing? ...

Back to the Aeroclub and its sub-sections. The Aeroclub represents all of general aviation, as an umberella organisation. Each section, such as MISASA, or the EAA, pays dues to the Aeroclub, who then employ someone (Neil De Lange in this case) whose job it is to speak to the CAA on behalf of GA pilots.

So you can join EAA instead of MISASA, or any other subsection. However, EAA, quite rightly, spend thier efforts to look at and fight about things like aircraft registration, or rules pertaining to aircraft building.

I am a member of both EAA and MISASA, since I fly microlights and also build. I only need to be a member of the Aeroclub once.

The issue of whether one should have to join an ascociation is thorny; Barnstormer, and others, seem to agree that it is a good thing, and no one who flies is really going to miss the R400-500 per annum fee to join MISASA and the Aeroclub. But there have been objections to such a move. The employment of a permanent representative is also thorny but I think that ultimately that is exactly what is needed.

Perhaps we need a poll on this?

Jay Hyde
MISASA PRO

[Morph]

Perhaps we need a poll on this?

Jay Hyde
MISASA PRO

PM or email me with the poll questions you want to pose and I'll set it up for you

[Barnstormer]

Oddball

Thx for the post. Makes sense to me!

Quite frankly, I normally rather pay somebody to do stuff that they do better than I can.

I agree with you, the more members, the lesser the fees will be.

Thx Morph!

How about:
I am a MISASA member
I am an EAA member
I would like to join MISASA to reap the benefits of one body fighting for our piece of the sky
I am not interested

Maybe Oddball or some of the other old hands would have some better suggestions.

Once the poll has been concluded, I recommend a list of everybody who wants to join be mailed to MISASA for follow-up. This can only be to our benefit. Agreed?

Thank you Gentleman

[Louisvw]

I think that only if one have been a committee member of Misasa you will know what time every member put in, to make microlight flying possibly for all and any one really go into the new laws CAA soon going to enforced on us, than I say it will be wise to join a body like Misasa to fight that battle for us and by us I mean every one that want to fly any microlight or gyrocopter legally
We need a mass of people to be able to get what they fight for and I might be wrong but I think we all want to be able to fly our microlights with out to many restrictions. I know there will be a lot of reasons not to join Misasa but I don’t think we will enjoy our sport for much longer

For the AP's please do what you got to do to keep our sport safe, I recently found that one of my Instructors for some flights switch off his trike master switch to put the money in his pocket The hours on his trike cannot run on thereby he save on the 25 hourly inspections also,he also put in his log book that he install new plugs without do it, after I made a endorsement in his log book he just went to a other school were he still put students lives in danger by letting them fly his microlights for money .The AP that now inspected this gentlemen’s two trike either don't know about it or just ignore it ,the point I want to make is that CAA don't want to do anything about it and only if we all support a body like Misasa we can control our own members because this type of thing will be the reason that CAA will make it more and more difficulty for us to fly microlights

I say lets us all stand together and keep our sport safe than we will not have to worry about CAA enforsing new laws onto us

[skybound®]

So what to do? If we make joining a body complusory everyone squeals because they are forced to join; if we don't then there's squealing because MISASA are not doing enough to protect the collective interest, even though only a small part of that collective now contribute.

There is an old saying - Everybody's business is nobody's business. I think we should add to that - Put up or shut up. Explanation - Put up with what you got; help to get where we shoud - or shut up

I am in favour of having representation - without it, things would be worse, and even with the looming regulations, I cannot see why a person would want to find an obstructive reason for not contributing.

Just to answer the question regarding what is in store for 'forcing membership, it is contained in the new part 62 - where it targets the pilot and not the aircraft.

62.03.1 (1) An applicant for the issuing of a recreational pilot
licence shall -
(e) be a bona fide member of an aviation recreational organisation
approved for the purpose in terms of Part 149.

[Slider]

Hi guys. Ok its not just microlighters sitting in this position, but the guys on AVCOM as well. I suggest we all get together and see what we can do. Go and read “Should we be suing the CAA” on www.avcom.co.za “Avcom forum index -> General Aviation Chatter”

Lets stand together

[RV4ker (RIP)]

I have been MISASA member for 7 years and don't even own a microlight. WHY? When I finaly get around to buying (and hopefully flying) a GT450 I don't want to have to carry a transponder, want to be allowed to fly up to FL145, route below TMA's and most of all be allowed to actually fly it where I want to and not be restricted to "low risk areas" miles away from where I live. If you are not aware of what I am referring to, you should def be a member of MISASA/Aero club. They have fought these issues in recent past.

Given the cost of membership around a buck a day, I fail to see why more people don't join. It a catch 22. If MISASA does not have the support (cash) of the majority of the microlighters they are not taken seriously by CAA and thus fewer guys join and representation gets less. We need a unified aviation voice not plenty splintered organisation each with their own agenda. MISASA is there to ensure free skies for microlighters. Simple - What else do you need (and what are you willing to do). The onus is on YOU. Join and make a difference.

Remember most of these guys do it for nothing for your direct and indirect benefit. It a thankless job, but without your support (financial and other) MISASA will fold and CAA WILL ground us all.

[Oddball]

Hello again guys,

some feedback from Mike:

In the new regulations it says that a pilot must belong to an ARO (Aviation Recreation Organization) to get and keep his licence. These regulations are to be promulgated on the 1st of January 2008. Thus we (MISASA) will apply to be a recognized ARO within the next 6 months.

(this means that you will need to join something like MISASA next year..)

Here is some further information as to why that AP may not have wanted to sign unless you are a MISASA/ Aeroclub member (note that you cannot be a member of just MISASA- you have to join the Aeroclub as well, since MISASA is merely a subsection of the Aeroclub).

In the past members have requested that Aero Club take out a bulk insurance scheme for the members. This was done in the form of the following two schemes, and as a member of Aero Club you have the option to make use of these insurances:

1. Professional Indemnity Insurance. This was taken out by the Aero Club for its members to cover all professional people. This group of people include all people who have been trained in some sort of way to provide a professional service to their sport. Please don’t confuse this with the term “commercialism”. This professional insurance covers people like instructors and APs against gross professional negligence. It covers only members of Aero Club. The professional person will only be covered when performing his/her profession for another member of Aero Club. e.g. An instructor, who is a member of the Aero Club, must be instructing a student who is a member of the Aero Club for the instructor to be covered by the insurance. The insurance will also not cover an AP, who is a member of Aero Club, if he performs an AP on an aircraft of a non-member of Aero Club. With these details in mind, it would then be in the best interest of all professional people to be members of MISASA and the Aero Club to make use of this insurance. It would also not be in the best interest of all professional people to do work/instruction for non-members of Aero Club as they would then not be covered and the professional could then be sued in his personal capacity. The AP has a choice whether he/she wants to take the chance by signing out a non-member’s aircraft. A non-member has the choice to either join Aero Club so that his AP of choice can sign out his aircraft or he needs to take his aircraft to an AMO or AME who will charge him in the region of R380/hour to look at his aircraft.

2. Third Party Legal Liability Insurance. This form of insurance is useful to carry should your aircraft accidentally damage a hangar, a car, another aircraft or even a farmers mielies should you have an engine out.

As a member of Aero Club you then have access to these insurances at greatly reduced costs.


THIRD PARTY INSURANCE
Third party insurance is not compulsory. CAA will therefore issue your Authority to Fly without the insurance. Pilots don’t have to have the insurance but it is something pilots shouldn’t fly without. I hope that pilots who fly without this insurance have a large bank balance, especially in this day and age. If you go in your personal capacity you can get Third Party Insurance from Dennis Jankelow for R500 000 for about R1000 per annum. As a member of Aero Club you will pay a mere R240. Doesn’t this seem at least an economical plus factor to be an Aero Club member. It makes a hell of a lot of sense.”