1 Jan 2008 - the new laws

Discussion of all official legislative, legal, licencing and operating matters

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Postby skybound® » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:03 am

emil wrote:I have a question

I fly a sting quite often that has been taken out of MPL and moved to PPL category

Does this still count ..it is still a ZU plane
The second question.
how do you know this law will apply to the plane you fly…lets say I fly into wonder boom with this sting.
how would I know if I am going to be in the 12#$@#$@ or not
If I understand your question correctly, yes Part 24 will still apply to your aircraft as it is a Non Type Certified Aircraft (NTCA). It matter not if it is a microlight (MPL) or aeroplane (PPL).

As far as being in doo doo - the check and balance comes at applying for your Authority to Fly (ATF). The AP will not sign off your inspection if the aircraft does not comply with the laws.
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Postby t-bird » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:14 am

Hi Fairy/Skybound

We need to structure this thing if we want to get anywhere

We know about the changes to the law.

Was aeroclub involved? What was there response? Let’s invite the aeroclub representatives to this forum.

Was the correct route followed for these amendments by the CAA?

If the correct route was not followed can we get a legal guy to draft a letter to CAA stating that the amendment is void.

If correct route was followed what recourse do we have?

Did the Aeroclub act in the best interest of Misasa and SAGPA members ? If not is that not enough reason to declare the changes void.

I am really concerned about insurance issues. What if I have an engine out the 2 Jan 2008 and someone gets hurt and sues me or even worse my estate because I have change my own sparkplugs on the 1 Jan 2008?

Thanks for all your input and effort over the years.
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Postby mike2flyfar » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:42 am

Just so that you know ...

I attend every single Aero Club board meeting and up till last week I was one of 4 members of the Executive committee (with David Levy) who look after the admin and financial matters of the Aero Club.
I speak to Neil de Lange who is the GM almost every day. Neil is a microlighter (he has a Flightstar) and his heart is with us - that said, he looks after 15 sections (modellers is the biggest with 2,200 members, MISASA is the second biggest at 900 members with gliding, hang/paragliding and parachuting with about 500 - 600 members each as the next biggest sections) so has his hands full. Neil and I have a great working relationship and he is always looking after our interests ... of that there is no doubt. And I work on MISASA stuff almost every day ...
so, please read my answers (in a few hours) to a lot of your questions.

Cheers
M
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Postby Fairy Flycatcher » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:47 am

Hey T-Bird. I am on my way to Virgina to do a briefing, and will not be able to work on this some more today, but I do think that a separate section on microlighter will be the perfect format to address everything logically. What do you think?

Your questions are all relavant and David has been negotiating with a great trike-pro legal guru. I do not think the process was followed properly so far, so we have grounds, but first we need clarity on every single issue and what our proposed changes are. We have about 8 weeks to sort this out all the way , So no time to waste.

replying from my cellphone at the moment...excuse spelling / grammer
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Part 24....

Postby John Boucher » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:18 am

[0*

This whole kaboedel makes the Rotax 582 a really expensive engine to run..... Where's the fun and pleasure factor now?

2c worth!
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Postby mike2flyfar » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:08 am

Good morning



I received answers from Geoff Dyer (MISASA Training and Licencing), Rowena Kraidy (MISASA Technical Officer) and Neil de Lange (Aero Club GM). I couldn’t get anything from the CAA.



In future Rowena will answer all matters pertaining to technical issues and the relevant regulations (Part 24 and others) and Geoff Dyer and Deon Kraidy will answer all matters pertaining to training and licencing and the relevant regulations (Part62).



Please address questions to them directly … PLEASE copy important posts to their personal e-mails too – we don’t always monitor these discussion groups and if no one tells us that there is an important discussion about a MISASA issue going on we cannot answer or help.





ANSWERS IN BOLD BELOW.



1. Before the minimum height rule over heritage sites etc., was made law, I had a very, very lengthy conversation informing the GM of Aero Club about it...........Now it is law........... I even spoke to Renel Stander about it while she was still with DOT...

THIS MATTER HAS BEEN ESCALATED TO THE MINITER OF TRANSPORT AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AS THE COMMISSIONER IS SEEMINGLY UNABLE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE – NEIL DE LANGE WAS ADVISED THAT THIS IS IN DISCUSSION AT PARLIAMENT AND WE WILL BE ADVISED SOONEST

'unquote' to the microlighters.co.za guys, what this means is that if you want to fly along the beach at Sodwana, you need to be at 4 500 feet ASL!!lekka view from up there. What is also means is that if you want to fly along the Drakensberg, you need to be at about 15 000feet ASL?

THE SAME APPLIES HERE - THE FIRST IS THE PROTECTED AREAS ACT AND THE SECOND IS THE NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT ACT

2. DEAT have passed laws that you guys should know about by now.. They have already successfully closed Overberg School of Microlighting in Hermanus.........they have been warned that if they use their strip again they will be arrested and their aircraft impounded......yup......... Our
Aero Club were also warned about this about 2 years ago.......now it's law, and they are trying crisis management......



THIS MATTER NEIL TOOK UP IN 2004 WHEN THE THE FIRST DRAFT WAS SUBMITTED. TOGETHER WITH THE COMMERCIAL AVAITION ASSOCIATION AND MEMBERS OF NASCOM WE MADE SEVERAL SUBMISSIONS TO THE CAA ET AL. THE CAA HAS FAILED TO EFFECTIVELY COMMUNICATE THE ISSUES WITH THE DEAT. WE CONTINUE TO ATTACK THE ISSUE. THE AERO CLUB CERTAINLY DOES NOT CONDONE THIS NONSENCE.

3. Part 24 has been gazetted, with implementation date 1/1/08....haul out your BEEK volumes 2 and 3 and start reading and see what is in store for us...............My bet is that by the end of January 2008, NTCA operations will have been curtailed in almost EVERY MICROLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOL IN SOUTH AFRICA!!! I know that for sure by the end of next year, there will only be new microlights flying legally in SA....... There will be NO NEW AUTHORITIES TO FLY, BECAUSE NO AP WILL SIGN ANY PLANE OUT!!! And Andre Swanepoel has advertised for 2 POSITIONS IN HIS DEPARTMENT!!! The add's ran in Sunday Times and Rapport newspaper 3 weeks ago. Guess what, they (CAA) are getting ready to do their rounds in January............



PART 24 WAS IMPLEMENTED ON THE 14TH OCTOBER 2002. IT HAS NOT CHANGED. IF YOU WOULD LIKE A COPY OF IT ASK ROWENA. THE FOLLOWING IS THE AIC: (A CERTAIN LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CAA SAID THAT THE DOCUMENT WAS NOT LEGAL OR WHATEVER – SO MAYBE THAT IS WHY THE CAA HASN’T ENFORCED IT UP TILL NOW … BUT STILL, IT HAS BEEN UNCHANGED AND AROUND FOR THIS LONG!!!!)



REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA

CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY
CAA

Private Bag x08

Waterkloof

0145

Tel: (012) 346-5566

Fax: (012) 346-6059

E-Mail: mail@caa.co.za
AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION CIRCULAR
AIC

18⋅23

02-11-15



GENERAL

LEGISLATION MATTERS
PUBLICATION IN TERMS OF REGULATION 11.04.4(2) OF THE FULL PARTICULARS OF AN EXEMPTION GRANTED BY THE COMMISSIONER FOR CIVIL AVIATION FROM THE REQUIREMENTS OF REGULATION 11.04.6 OF THE CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1997.

1. Applicant

The South African Civil Aviation Authority

Private Bag X08

Waterkloof

0145

2. Details of exemption

The Commissioner for Civil Aviation has granted all operators of aircraft that do not qualify for the issue of a certificate of airworthiness, an exemption from the provisions of regulation 11.04.6, in so far as the aforementioned regulation authorizes the operation of aircraft that are unable to comply with Regulation 21.08.1A, on condition that the requirements of the Document LS/1, are complied with.

3. This exemption will nullify the content of the aforementioned regulation enabling the Commissioner to withdraw Document LS/1 and impose the requirements contained in proposed Parts 24, 94 and 96 (and associated technical standards) as conditions for the operation of aircraft that do not qualify for the issue of a certificate of airworthiness (Non-type Certificated Aircraft).

4. Background Information

The Document LS/1 was reinstated by the CAA on 15 December 2000 as an interim measure to address the lack of any regulatory requirements for non-type certificated aircraft. It was initially envisaged that the Document LS/1 would be re-instated for a period of six months. This envisaged six months re-instatement period has stretched to over 18 months and it will probably take another six months before Parts 24, 94 and 96 are promulgated.



5. Document LS/1, however, does not make adequate provision for the commercial operation of non-type certificated aircraft and is completely silent on the issue of operating certificates. The Flight Operations, Legal and Airworthiness sections of the CAA receive many queries about the LS/1 Document where particular issues are not addressed by the Document. The solutions to these queries often cannot be found in terms of the current Document LS/1.



6. Development of Parts 24, 94 and 96

The CAA has spent the past 18 months developing new proposed Parts 24, 94 and 96 to ultimately replace the LS/1 Document. These new Parts incorporate many of the provisions of the LS/1Document, but also make provision for veteran aircraft and ex-military aircraft, and deal with the commercial operations of the so-called LS/1 aircraft.

7. The three new Parts are, Part 24 ‘Airworthiness Standards: Non-type Certificated Aircraft’, Part 94 ‘Operation of Non-type Certificated Aircraft’, and Part 96 ‘Commercial Operation of Non-type Certificated Aircraft’. (All recreational pilot licensing aspects will be dealt with in a new Part 62)

8. Non-type certificated aircraft (NTCA) is defined as ‘any aircraft which does not qualify for having a certificate of airworthiness issued in terms of Part 21’.

9. As NTCA include a wide range of aircraft, from model aircraft to homebuilt to veteran airliners, it was necessary to take a generic approach and develop regulations and set standards that would be applicable to all NTCA or for a particular category of aircraft only. This led inter alia to the categories ‘aeroplane’ and ‘weight-shift aircraft’. No weight or other considerations were taken into account. - 2 -

10. The minimal airworthiness standards to be met by all NTCA are those laid down for amateur-built aircraft. (These were basically copied from Document LS/1). Additional standards are laid down for production-built aircraft, the latter being an amateur-built aircraft approved as a prototype for line-production, for sale as a kit, or even as a set of plans.

11. As mentioned above, Part 96 contains the requirements for the commercial operation of these aircraft. In order not to unfairly advantage the operator of NTCA, proposed Regulation 96.01.1 (3) restricts ex-military aircraft conducting passenger flights to “flipping” – where the place of take-off and subsequent landing are one and the same. Part 96 also makes provision for the issuing of a Part 96 Operating Certificate, if the prescribed requirements are met.

12. Motivation

Document LS/1 has clearly outlived its usefulness. It is expected that it will take approximately six months to translate Parts 24, 94 and 96 into Zulu and obtain the Ministers approval for these Parts. As an interim measure, the CAA motivated the granting of this exemption to operators of Non Type Certificated Aircraft, subject to the condition that the requirements contained in proposed Parts 24, 94 and 96 are to be complied with by the operators of NTCA. This will also allow the CAA to test and evaluate the new Parts in practice and iron out any difficulties before the above-mentioned Parts are finally promulgated.

13. During the development of Parts 24, 94 and 96, extensive consultation was undertaken and the proposed Parts were well received by stakeholders. Furthermore, the Proposed Parts 24, 94 and 96 were published for comment on 11 January 2002 and were approved by CARCOM at a meeting on 27 February 2002. There should therefore be no objection from stakeholders to these Parts being introduced in this manner and at this juncture. Indeed the commercial operators of NTCA should welcome the speedy introduction of the proposed Parts, as this will eradicate most of the impediments they currently face (such as operating certificates).

14. Safety implications

The CAA is of the opinion that an acceptable level of safety will be maintained by way of the requirements contained in the proposed Parts 24, 94 and 96. The minimal airworthiness standards to be met by all NTCA are those laid down for amateur-built aircraft. (These standards were basically copied from Document LS/1 which has been successfully utilized in South Africa for over thirty years). Additional standards are also laid down for production-built aircraft. It is further submitted that the commercial operating requirements in Part 96 will ensure adequate levels of aviation safety.

15. Period of Exemption

The Commissioner for Civil Aviation has granted the Exemption from the provisions of Regulation 11.04.6 in so far as the aforementioned regulation authorizes the operation of aircraft that are unable to comply with Regulation 21.08.1A, until such time that the proposed Parts 24,94 and 96 are promulgated in the government gazette.

16. The implementation of the proposed Parts 24, 94 and 96, as the terms and conditions attached to the granting of this general exemption, will come into effect on 14 October 2002.

17. Please note that proposed Parts 24, 94 and 96, with the associated proposed technical standards, will be available for purchase at the CAA publications office, or on the CAA Website, www.caa.co.za.

COMMISSIONER FOR CIVIL AVIATION



SO LET ME KNOW EXACTLY WHAT CHANGES YOU WANT AND WE WILL DO THE REST.



IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ ROWENA’S POST WHICH I WILL SEND TO YOU NOW TOO.




4. Part 62 has been passed by CARCOM, with closing date for comments YESTERDAY.............the lack of communication from Aero Club/MISASA
for informing the industry that a document as important as Part 62 TS final draft was delivered to carcom some time ago................ Have you read it ?! you can download it off CAA's website...........



I HAVE MANY TIMES SENT OUT NOTICES STATING THAT I WOULD LIKE FEEDBACK ON PART 62 – ESPECIALLY THE AMENDMENTS. PART 62 COMMENT PERIOD CLOSED ABOUT A YEAR AGO. THE FIRST AMENDMENT COMMENT PERIOD HAPPENED IN ABOUT MAY AND RECENTLY THE SECOND AMENDMENT (WHICH DOES NOT AFFECT US – IT IS MOSTLY THE HAND AND PARAGLIDING GUYS WHO HAVE MADE CHANGES) HAS HAPPENED RECENTLY. THE PART 62 CATS ARE STILL PUBLISHED ON THE CAA WEB SITE BUT THE COMMENT PERIOD IS OVER. STILL, WE CAN MAKE AMENDMENTS ANY TIME WE FEEL THERE IS A NEED. IF YOU WANT A COPY OF PART 62 THEN ASK GEOFF OR DEON

It is more difficult to get a hang glider licence now than it was for me to get my PPL in 81 ! Now let's talk, see here, you can fly a powered hang glider without any part 24 nonsense, and you can fly a powered paratrike without any part 24 nonsense...But, take the same Rattex 582 engine that is mounted in a tandem paratrike, very, very smart and fancy trike undercarriage (yup, just looks like your Raptor) and then take a Hang
glider wing, put them together and call them a microlight weight shift, and bingo presto you get part 24 and all the associated nonsense....How, how, how I ask you, did Aero Club and MISASA let this illogical nonsense happen...........



YOU MUST ASK THE HANG AND PARAGLIDING SECTION ABOUT THEIR STUFF.


I was part of the original draft from MISASA for part 62TS, and I remember holding my head in my hands and saying to Annie, what on earth is happening to our sport....This is just so 'overkill'.....But like a lamb to the slaugher, I just carried on drafting this huge overkill document which is just so crazy for microlighting, especially Trikes........



MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAFETY AND EVERYONES BEST INTEREST AT HEART HAVE DRAFTED PART 62 – NO MATTER WHAT IS WRITTEN HERE DAVID AND ANETTE WERE A GREAT HELP AND INFLUENCE IN WRITING UP PART 62 AND I FOR ONE APPRECIATE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. OTHERS WHO HELPED A LOT ARE GEOFF DYER AND NEIL DE LANGE. STILL IF IT’S NOT PERFECT (AND IT ISN’T) JUST WRITE UP THE SUGGESTED AMENDMENTS EXACTLY AS THEY SHOULD BE, AND IF EVERYONE AGREES WE CAN GET AN AMENDMENT DONE. IT REALLY IS VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD AND EASY.


Now, I support the 3 of you fully, but I believe your support for the current bodies as bodies of people capable of dealing with legislative matters for microlighting (read trikes) is energy spent in the wrong direction...........

Misasa is still a great bunch of guys, but is almost a useless tool to fight legislation. I have stated this opinion time and time again. By all means keep MISASA, and use it just as a social club, endorsing championships, events at club level etc., but darn it Chris, we need a breath of fresh air to tackle the short term future, and unfortunately the current framework of representation just does not cut the grade.

And now MISASA has changed it's name to include MI -SA (Sport plane Association)-SA.........

THE MICROLIGHT AND LIGHT SPORT AEROPLANE ASSOCIATION OF SA (MISASA)


Aish, trikes are just being sold further and further down the river.......... I am so dying for a new energized body to look after trike pilots. I don't care if it takes 6 years, but we have to get trikes away from LSA. Get trikes back to basics, back to owner maintenance and owner discretion............And then educate the owners...........Annual Instructor and AP seminars...........think tanks on how to reach all trike pilots (yup, all, not only computer owners and computer literate folk, but the folk who are only in touch via postal addresses, make sure they are educated in the maintenace of their trikes, the maintenance of safe flying, reminding them of little things that tend to be forgotten..................

but I agree Chris, we first need a commitment from everyone, within their own hearts and minds, to support and stand firm...........and be proud again............ And I have found this committment across the length and breadth of SA.........but it is sadly NOT for MISASA or Aero Club:( I am afraid they are reaping the rewards of years of poor communication with members.......You were the last of the good guys Chris..............You did wonders with the mag............but even that lies in tatters...................

I have over the past 3 weeks received phenomenal support, both financial and emotional, to restore triking to its former glory So, yes it is not that folk do not want to pay their subscriptions (individuals have pledged 5 times more than current membership fees).......but some-how it just seems that the current body needs to take a back seat...........its all about cycles I suppose...........things come and go..........

There is so much I would love to share.........but I know that it would not be constructive......so I'll leave it for the trash-bin:)

I was ready to help, but my calls are not taken, let alone returned...........a sure-fire recipe for winning back old members.........

Kind regards to you guys.

....enjoy your last 2 months and 8 days of legal flying........

PERSONALLY I FEEL THAT AN E-MAIL LIKE THIS CAUSES MORE DAMAGE (AND PANIC) THAN GOOD AND ALTHOUGH THE QUESTIONS AND WORRIES ARE LEGITIMATE, I THINK WE CAN ALL WORK ON THIS TOGETHER, FOR EVERYONES GOOD, SO MUCH BETTER WITH THE RIGHT ATTITUDE.

SURE, WE HAVE FAILED IN THAT WE NEED TO COMMUNICATE MORE REGULARLY AND MORE COMPREHENSIVELY.

NO MATTER HOW MUCH FLACK WE TAKE, WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON ALL THE ISSUES THAT AFFECT US - NOT MENTIONED HERE ARE MEDICAL ISSUES, AIRCRAFT REGISTRATION ISSUES, AIRWORTHYNESS ISSUES, AIRSPACE AND FEES ISSUES … TO NAME A FEW.

ANYWAY, AT THE AGM ALAN MACKENZIE AND TRIXIE AGREED TO HELP ME WITH THE WEB SITE AND COMMUNICATION SO YOU WILL SOON SEE IMPROVEMENTS THERE … AND ROWENA AND DEON KRAIDY ARE ON THE COMMITTEE ADDING MUCH NEEDED FRESH BLOOD.

IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR WORRY – SURE WRITE IT HERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE, BUT PLEASE CONTACT US TOO. WE MIGHT BE WORKING ON IT ALREADY.

CHEERS

Mike Blyth
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Postby mike2flyfar » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:17 am

THANKS ROWENA FOR YOUR HARD WORK.



IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR WOULD LIKE A COPY OF PART 24 THEN CONTACT ROWENA DIRECTLY rowena@lefssa.com



M




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rowena Kraidy [mailto:rowena@lefssa.com]
Sent: 25 October 2007 03:46 PM
To: Mike Blyth
Subject: ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS



Herewith facts to try and sort out the flurry of emails on the group over the last few days.



REQUIREMENTS TO BECOME AN APPROVED PERSON:

1. Complete application form – this can be obtained from me or from the Aero Club website – and submitted to the MISASA committee for approval to the Technical Committee.

2. On approval, the candidate must write the applicable examinations set out by the Technical Committee of Aero Club.



CAN OWNERS WORK ON THEIR OWN AIRCRAFT?

Yes all owners of NTCA aircraft can do all their repairs on their own aircraft, but the aircraft has to be inspected and signed out by an AP, AMO, AME or CAA approved person who is appropriately rated. There is no change proposed in Part 24, Part 66.10 or Part 96. This will not be changing in January 2008. Part 24.03.1(3) says: “Any non-type certificated aircraft … shall be maintained by or on behalf of its owner in such a manner that it is airworthy at the commencement of any flight.”



APPROVED PERSON LIST

There is a published AP list if you need to find out if someone is a registered AP or not.



AERO CLUB

Membership to the Aero Club is voluntary. You cannot be forced to join Aero Club. Aero Club and its sections are non-governmental. Most personnel at Aero Club are volunteers with a few paid officials and was created by the members to represent the members when government issues need to be discussed like the promulgation of Part 24 and all the other legal issues. The paid officials are paid out of monies received through membership and CAA grants. Aero Club will have greater representation than individual pilots will have with the CAA. Aero Club can cease to exist if there are no members.

In the past members have requested that Aero Club take out a bulk insurance scheme for the members. This was done in the form of the following two schemes, and as a member of Aero Club you have the option to make use of these insurances:

1. Professional Indemnity Insurance. This was taken out by the Aero Club for its members to cover all professional people. This group of people include all people who have been trained in some sort of way to provide a professional service to their sport. Please don’t confuse this with the term “commercialism”. This professional insurance covers people like instructors and APs against gross professional negligence. It covers only members of Aero Club. The professional person will only be covered when performing his/her profession for another member of Aero Club. e.g. An instructor, who is a member of the Aero Club, must be instructing a student who is a member of the Aero Club for the instructor to be covered by the insurance. The insurance will also not cover an AP, who is a member of Aero Club, if he performs an AP on an aircraft of a non-member of Aero Club. With these details in mind, it would then be in the best interest of all professional people to be members of Aero Club to make use of this insurance. It would also not be in the best interest of all professional people to do work/instruction for non-members of Aero Club as they would then not be covered and the professional could then be sued in his personal capacity. The AP has a choice whether he/she wants to take the chance by signing out a non-member’s aircraft. A non-member has the choice to either join Aero Club so that his AP of choice can sign out his aircraft or he needs to take his aircraft to an AMO or AME who will charge him in the region of R380/hour to look at his aircraft.

2. Third Party Legal Liability Insurance. This form of insurance is useful to carry should your aircraft accidentally damage a hangar, a car, another aircraft or even a farmers mielies should you have an engine out.

As a member of Aero Club you then have access to these insurances at greatly reduced costs.



THIRD PARTY INSURANCE

Third party insurance is not compulsory. CAA will therefore issue your Authority to Fly without the insurance. Pilots don’t have to have the insurance but it is something pilots shouldn’t fly without. I hope that pilots who fly without this insurance have a large bank balance, especially in this day and age. If you go in your personal capacity you can get Third Party Insurance from Dennis Jankelow for R500 000 for about R1000 per annum. As a member of Aero Club you will pay a mere R240. Doesn’t this seem at least an economical plus factor to be an Aero Club member. It makes a hell of a lot of sense.



CAN AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURERS SIGN OUT AIRCRAFT?

This question can be answered by the following sections

Part 66.10.2.1

No person shall act as an approved person on non-type certificated aircraft referred to in sub-regulation (3), unless such person is the holder of a valid approved person certificate with the appropriate rating issued by the Commissioner or, if applicable, the organization approved for the purpose in terms of Part 149, as the case may be.

Part 66.10.2.2

The holder of an approved person certificate shall not exercise privileges other than those granted by the approval and the appropriate rating held by such holder.



This means that should a manufacturer be an AP, AME or AMO rated on that specific aircraft or has a special dispensation from CAA they may do the annual inspection and sign the documents to apply for the new authority to fly. The person doing the inspection must be appropriately rated to do the inspection.



LEGALITY OF PART 24

Part 24 has never been promulgated but will be in January 2008. When Part 24 came into being about 2003 the Commissioner signed the document and it was put in place to tested for a 6 months period, which then dragged on for 4 years. The test period was supposed to be used as a period to see if the document is a good working document. It was during this time that amendments to the document should have taken place. Now that the Minister has said that this document is a good one and has signed it, it has been sent for promulgation. This document has been law since it was signed by the Commissioner but was never taken seriously. During this time everybody has had a chance to bring about amendments to the document prior to promulgation. Only now, months before the promulgation date, is everybody jumping up and down saying that they don’t agree with the document. Just to let you all know that we have one last chance to make any changes to this document before its promulgation. The date for our last opportunity to table amendments to this document is 11 DECEMBER 2007. BUT … WE WILL NEED ALL AMENDMENTS BY THE 15TH NOVEMBER TO HAVE TIME TO SEND IT OUT FOR COMMENT AND TO GET IT WRITTEN UP IN THE PROPER FORMAT. Should you have something constructive to say about amending this document before promulgation, please let the committee have what you think the problems are. For those of you who have never seen this document, I have attached it. Please if you consider anything a problem, please feel free to let us also have your solution to the problem. If nobody says anything by this date, what is written in Part 24 will be cast in stone and will take considerable effort in the form of applications to change it whereas things can be changed fairly easily still at this stage.



Should you want to make use of these insurances at a greatly reduced cost to you or have a voice when you have problems with the regulations, you need to be a member. Use the channels available to you to moan. If you aren’t a member and not prepared to do anything about it stop complaining. Become a member and get involved. The apathy of the Microlighters of South Africa was very prevalent at the latest AGM when only 18 members were present, four of which were from far away and it included the present committee.



Regards

Rowena Kraidy

Technical

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Postby skybound® » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:32 am

CAN OWNERS WORK ON THEIR OWN AIRCRAFT?

Yes all owners of NTCA aircraft can do all their repairs on their own aircraft, but the aircraft has to be inspected and signed out by an AP, AMO, AME or CAA approved person who is appropriately rated. There is no change proposed in Part 24, Part 66.10 or Part 96. This will not be changing in January 2008. Part 24.03.1(3) says: “Any non-type certificated aircraft … shall be maintained by or on behalf of its owner in such a manner that it is airworthy at the commencement of any flight.”
Man I wish we could cut out the relevant part and replace it with dots. :wink:

Putting it back in is the crux that prevents us from doing our own maintenance:

The dots = other than those referred to in sub-regulation (1).

Sub regulation (1) refers to amongst others, microlights. Hence it reads you can only perform your own maintenance if it is not mentioned in Sub Regulation (1)

Para 24.03.1(3) looks like it was put in to allow the hangliders, paragliders and the likes to do their own maintenance.
Last edited by skybound® on Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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re

Postby t-bird » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:36 am

Skybound and Annet can you please give us some suggestions.


The date for our last opportunity to table amendments to this document is 11 DECEMBER 2007. BUT … WE WILL NEED ALL AMENDMENTS BY THE 15TH NOVEMBER TO HAVE TIME TO SEND IT OUT FOR COMMENT AND TO GET IT WRITTEN UP IN THE PROPER FORMAT
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Postby skybound® » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:54 am

Maybe need to get some agreement on the meaning of the regulation. Rowena seems to have a differing opinion.
SUBPART 3: MAINTENANCE
APPROVED MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE
24.03.1 (1) A non-type certificated aircraft, classified in the sub-groups (a) to (g) of subregulation 24.01.1(2), shall be maintained in accordance with its Approved Maintenance Schedule in such a manner that it is airworthy at the commencement of any flight.
(2) The Approved Maintenance Schedule, referred to in subregulation (1)
shall –
(a) prescribe which Approved Person(s) with the appropriate repair rating,
which licensed AME(s) and which approved AMO(s) may carry out
maintenance on the aircraft;
(b) specify the conditions under which maintenance shall be carried out,
including environmental conditions and equipment and tools to be used;
and
(c) be in the format as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-NTCA.
(3) Any non-type certificated aircraft, other than those referred to in subregulation (1) above, shall be maintained by or on behalf of its owner [/color]in such a manner that it is airworthy at the commencement of any flight. Where the aircraft manufacturer or any approved authority has issued maintenance instructions or guidelines, these instructions or guidelines shall be adhered to.
My interpretation is that subregulation (1) is referring back to types not listed in sub-groups (a) to (g) of subregulation 24.01.1(2)

To get to your interpretation they would have to refer to Subpart 1 not sub regulation 1. 'Subregulation 1 above' is in my mind referring to subregulation 24.03.1 (1)

If you also look at 24.03.1 (2) it also refers to the manual in subregulation (1) which is definitely 24.03.1 (1)

In other words the owner maintenance allowed by 24.03.1(3) only applies to (h) onwards of 24.01.1(2)

Maybe a typo - but does make hell of a difference in interpretation.
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Postby Cloud Warrior » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:50 pm

"Moan"

"Stop complaining"

Yip - that really motivates me to get involved.

Sounds like the government!

Next they will be telling me to leave if I don't like it............

Oh wait - I did!
Solowings Aquilla
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Postby gertcoetzee » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:42 pm

moved to different topic
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Buy ML now or after 1/1/2008?

Postby Barnstormer » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:13 pm

Fellow Aviators

Would there be a difference in buying a secondhand 3-axis before and after 1/1/2008 wrt complying with new regulation and effort in seeing it through?

Are there thus any reasons why one should rather buy now than wait till after 1/1/2008?

Also, will there be a difference in an ML with 240h and one with say 960h, except for the 300h overhaul if applicable?

Comments would be appreciated. :roll:
Planeless...
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1 jan 2008 - the new laws

Postby lamercyfly » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:05 pm

Hi folk.

Thanks for all your inputs.

I cannot answer all questions, such as the question with regard to the Sting......

Some answers which have been posted on this subject have been misleading, but I am happy that they have been corrected.

I don't think it is necessary to dissect part 24 any more for now.

There are just so many stupid things in that law. My goodness..... some examples (just on the engine issue)

1. is 300 hours Tach time or Hobbs time? At sea level, my 582 cruises at 4 800RPM when I fly solo (which is almost always). However, on the Highveld, this same motor fitted to a Skyranger cruises at 6 200RPM. Question begs, how can you compare the 1 motor to the other and lump them both into the same TBO?

2. I own a home-design trike (yes, I really do), and in terms of the part 24 laws I may do all my own maintenance and repairs. However, my other trike, a stock standard factory built trike I MAY NOT TOUCH!!!

So, we are all in agreement that part 24 is STUPID to say the least as far as it APPLIES TO MICROLIGHTS. Just to make a point clear, folk, my point of departure is looking after microlight trike and older rag 'n tube types. That is where my energies are. If there are spin-offs to the rest of the NTCA, good........



So, part 24 has very unreasonable laws (from which I am afforded protection in terms of the constitution)..........

I am meeting with the Aero Club on Thursday. Will also visit with the MISASA chairman.

Will continue to chat to many of you over the telephone.

Have briefed legal team......they are waiting for further instructions.

The argument that industry consultation was done is bollocks.........5 individuals do not make an industry............

The reason none of us has done anyting, is cause we all bin flyin :lol: :wink: , believing that it was being taken care of. by our representative body.........Well it was not taken care of, and that is why we are doing something about it .............

I have managed to get the attention of many of you........... I have no doubt that no real and meaningful attempt was ever made at educating all pilots about part 24, and then getting all to participate in presenting laws that we want...........

Nevertheless, I am not on a confrontational warpath...........I look forward to the meetings this week.

I will keep you all abreast.

I wish myself and all of us 'good-luck'.

Kind regards.
David Daniel
Email: lamercyfly@gmail.com
Mobile: +27 (0)746495744
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Postby skybound® » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:47 pm


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