MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comment

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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby John Boucher » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:16 pm

MAD DOG, I trust I have given you some positive insight.... :-)
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby alanmack » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:42 pm

Mmm...

Let's start with what you pay. Aero Club fees and Aero-club subsection fees are:
Aero Club of South Africa (Compulsory) R 270.00
Soaring Society of South Africa (gliding) R 720.00
Sport Aerobatic Club of South Africa R 300.00
South African Home Builders Ass. Renewal R 215.00
South African Home Builders Ass. New R 390.00
South African Power Flying Ass. R 175.00
South African Balloon and Airship federation R 210.00
Microlight Association of South Africa [MISASA} R 300.00
EAA National and Chapter R415
South African Gyro plane Ass. R 255.00
Assa (Flight Directors and Safety Officers) R 650.00
Assa (Informal) Service Providers R 100.00

If you fly a Microlight / LSA you must by law belong to the appropriate association. So this means that you need to belong to the Aero-Club plus a sub-section thereof. Before the ARO was issued the CAA was charged with Microlight / LSA governance. Those that support the current Government requirement for representative appropriate aviation organisations to be formed and to be self-governing see the ARO as good news. The process has been many years in the making.

The Aero-club issue an annual report and is made up of the sub-section Chairman and an executive. See http://www.aeroclub.org.za for more detail.

MISASA is the national flying club that represents all microlight and light sport aeroplane pilots in SA. MISASA is run by a Committee that is guided by a constitution and which is elected annually by the membership at an Annual General Meeting. There are approximately 1,200 Pilot members. You are invited to attend any MISASA meeting. Meetings are posted on http://www.misasa.co.za

MISASA maintains a focus on matters relevant to microlight and light sport aeroplanes and their pilots. We share African Skies with aircraft of all types and as such the co ordination and facilitation of matters of a general nature are undertaken by the Aero Club. The one without the other would not achieve the aims and objectives of the two together. Given that the Aero Club represents all forms of aviation it has the responsibility to collectively market all the sub-sections and is accountable via the Board of the Aero Club to the membership. The Board of the Aero club is made up of representatives of each of the sections of the Aero Club.

So what does MISASA do?
Advocacy:
* We give a collective voice to the interests and rights of pilots and enthusiasts.
* We stand for responsible and accountable airspace governance structures without over regulation.
* Where appropriate, we act to preserve the freedom to fly, stand for legislative freedom and self governance.
* We maintain interfaces with stakeholder structures such as the CAA, RAASA, Weather Services, Dept of Sport & Recreation, FAI via CIMA, Air Traffic Services etc
* Promote the availability of third-party legal liability cover and professional indemnity insurance cover for members.
* Encourage air mindedness, safety and aviation excellence.
* Acknowledge and recognise aviation excellence through the granting of appropriate awards and designations.
Communications: We maintain membership and external communication channels via print and electronic media enablers.
Advice: Experienced pilots pool information on technical & training matters for the good of all...
Projects: Collectively energising the development of recreational aviation, co-ordinationg events and more...
Competitions: Maintaining and acquiring the resources needed to stage competitive flying events and facilitating the award of national and MISASA colours...
Membership Credentials: Aero Club membership cards identify current pilots for a variety of reasons.

Re the membership cards they are issued by the Aero Club. If you have not got one contact reception@aeroclub.org.za or phone Jackie at 011 082 1100

A current example is the proposed SACATS and CARS - see the reference above in the initial post. Have you read them? Have you noted the implications re for instance you servicing your plane? The MISASA Technical Director, Rowena Kraidy has spent months negotiating these matters on your behalf. She and the rest of the committee are volunteers - what would you like to do for your fellow pilots as a volunteer? Would you like to pay out of your pocket for a trip overseas to CIMA each year to ensure that SA can compete internationally? Three of your fellow pilots do this for us all and they pay their membership fees. Would you like to volunteer to help run competitions - you just need to take about 4 weeks a year leave for this. We have 3 pilots who take unpaid leave for this. Would you like to take time off to attend meetings with Government- one day a month should do? maybe you are short of time? How about volunteering to send say, just 20 e-mails a week to those that want to know something eg foreign pilots that want to convert (3 today). Would you like to pay for and manage MISASA's electronic media? All of these are but examples, there are many more, of what a few do for the many without cost to you. Mostly they do it without recognition and they prefer to not be cited for the work that they do for you. You of course could also help. When the view is understood that MISASA is the place where you can do something for other pilots then you will understand the true meaning and value of MISASA. So, take all this as a bonus and send just one page in to the magazine every four years - this will ease the burden of those that step in and do it for those that do not.

Back to your question - what is the money used for? Over the last year it has mainly been spent on the magazine, tracking systems for competitions, and travel and accommodation for out of town committee members to attend meetings - they offer 4x2 days a year - minimum.

Fly safe
Last edited by alanmack on Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby nicow » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:47 pm

Thanks for the info.
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby Ranger » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:10 pm

Alanmack, you have summed it up beautifully and if fellow pilots don't understand it now then they never will. Thank you and three cheers for what you and the commitee have done so far. (^^) (^^) (^^)
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby MADDOG » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:54 am

Hi Alan

Thank you for your response. Please can you expand and or accept comment on a few points:
If you fly a Microlight / LSA you must by law belong to the appropriate association.
I have asked fellow pilots who fly and or hanger with me. 6 out of 6 ask what law, when was it implemeted and how was it communicated. All were peed off cause when they arrived to renew their ATF was the first time they knew about this.(One was verbally told by Alex beforehand)

Communication is listed as one of the objectives of Misasa, and I do not think this mandatory fee was correctly communicated to the people now effcted.
Back to your question - what is the money used for?
I did not ask what the money is used for, but enquire what value I could expect to receive for my monies paid.
(The magazine should best be left unsaid - I am still waiting for my 1st subscription issue of African Sk/lies- but MISASA were caught as well and hopefully that is rectified)

But since you have explained where our funds are spent, is there anyway we normal fliers can not end up sponsoring those who wish to fly competitions. If I may relate to motoring once again. I pay car license and renew my drivers license as per the law. If I then decide to go motor racing, I join an appropriate organization and pay the required fees and then compete accordingly. The normal road user is in no way subsidising the competitive racer. It does not appear to be the case here.

I would like to turn what was for me - and my fellow flyers - a forced grudge purchase into a consenting mutually beneficial membership. Time will tell.

I trust you will accept my comments as constructive critisism as they are written as honest opinion.

Regards
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby John Boucher » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:16 am

Well, I'll answer the 1st part of your post... and I have posted it previously in this thread but gladly do it again. This has been a long time coming with the ARO & MOP finally being approved by CAA.... The relevant AIC has reference.
☞2. In terms of Part 149 of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1997 (CAR) the Commissioner for Civil Aviation (CCA) may, subject to the provisions of section 4(2) and (3) of the Act, designate a body or institution to oversee aviation recreational activities. In the absence of a body being designated, the CCA will retain this function. In terms of Part 149 of the CAR, no organisation shall undertake aviation recreation except under the authority of, and in accordance with the provisions of, an aviation recreation organisation (ARO) approval.
☞3. Part 149 shall apply to the approval and operation of recreation organisations involving:
(a) microlight aeroplanes and powered paragliders
(b) gliders
(c) free balloons
(d) gyroplanes
(e) hanggliders and non powered paragliders
(f) parachutes, or
(g) non-certified aircraft
Also have a look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14123&p=140169&hilit=mop#p140169 - No comments were made....

Also a thread I started... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14341&hilit=mop
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby alanmack » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:10 am

Hello Maddog,

I see that you have been a member of Microlighters since 2005. That is about when the first draft of the MOP was first put on the table and from when a succession of people have worked on the MOP for your benefit. Can I suggest that you read it then I suggest that you take the opportunity to do something for your fellow microlighters and finally I suggest that you propose a change to the MISASA constitution that gives effect to the expenditure guidelines that would suit you and finally I then suggest that you round up your mates to pass the change to the constitution or better still you could stand for the post of Competitions Director and then when you have the change to the constitution in your pocket and you are the Director of Competitions you can do nothing or you could decide to scrap the bid to host the World Microlight Championships in SA in 2013 - you could sell the kit that we are accumulating for competitions - oh, and the bonus would be that you would have achieved something - the status of being the first microlight association in SA without a national team.

I believe that I have answered you and I understand that you do not get it - for me the value you seek comes from getting involved and doing something for others - I will address the matter in the next magazine so why not write a story about your negative impressions of MISASA, tell us that you want more value, tell us that you do not support the MISASA constitution, tell us that you have chatted to a constitutional court judge about our illegality, tell us that you have read the the MOP, tell us that it is better to be a taker than a giver and tell us about whatever else you have a problem with - I will print it - without moving a full stop and I will send it to about 2,000 people. Please send me a full colour picture in hi resolution of yourself and we will spend more than your subs on printing your picture and on spreading your point of view.

We, I suspect have different points of view - you want more - I see that the value you seek will come when the penny drops, for you, that you must give to create value. But hey, if we did not have different opinions then maybe only one of us is thinking so please it is a serious request - tell us what a bunch of Wallies we are and let us know what we need to do to put a big smile on your microlighting future.
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:17 am

I have been flying since 1996 and the fees are piss in comparison to the frustrations of trying to do what MISASA does on your own. They "protect" your interests at CARCOM and national level. Things like forced radio and transponder in everything that flies. You can still fly legally without a radio outside Special rules area's. THIS IS THANKS TO AEROCLUB AND YOUR SECTION....

Joining should not be forced it should be common sense.... There is plenty behind he scene's work..... The alternative is no "controlling" body and pretty soon no flight at all....

I am happy to pay my fees.... (and I don;t even own a microlight)
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby MADDOG » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:29 am

Well its great to know that asking pertinent questions in an effort to gain a full understanding is met by this personal attack.
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby alanmack » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:50 am

Dear Maddog,

It is not a personal attack xxx it is a challenge to send in your opinion - we disagree - I am happy for you to have a different point of view - so write your story and let me have it.

Fly safe
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:54 am

Mine is not a personal attack... (if it aimed at me) :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Far from it. Frustration maybe but not personal in any way....

The way I see it. (and this goes for trikers and blik drivers alike. We have same "argument" around EAA fees & SAPFA Fees every year)
Aeroclub and thus MISASA is/are there to assist in keeping you in the air. There are rules (law) and those are made by Govt via CAA etc. They will make these as they wish unless there is forum which can engage them and represents the flying fraternity (for microlights that is MISASA arm of Aeroclub). THEY (CAA) WILL NOT ENGAGE EVERY PILOT ON HIS OWN... Without MISASA you have no voice. In simple terms... CAA is attempting to regulate aircraft out the sky to get closer to their 50% reduction in accidents "dream". Commish was on 702 bleating about that again this morning. The way they plan to achieve that is to REGULATE which costs bucks and will eventually mean flying a trike will be same as flying a TCA. MISASA is all that stands between US and them succeeding... Is that worth R600 a year? IMHO Yes...

Nothing personal, but the folks doing the work do get disheartened when folks moan.... Flying is not free and ensuring you are able to fly "free" costs money. Either pay MISASA and let them engage CAA or pay lawyer and enagage CAA direct. Your choice, but the lawyer won't even answer the fone for R600...
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby MADDOG » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:15 pm

Hi George

That's a far better expanation and justification for the fee than any of the others I have heard.

Thank you sir - I'll pass it on.
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby RV4ker (RIP) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:59 pm

:wink:
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby Tumbleweed » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:08 pm

Maddog, roll with the punches boet. :lol: :lol:

I also had previously concieved ideas but succumbed the the fact that there are some geniune good okes trying lots of stuff that I must be thankful for and if the R500 odd bucks did'nt go this way it could go another way i.e. ATC, weather, restricitve flying areas e.t.c. !!!!
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Re: MISASA ARO / MOP PLUS New SACATS AND CARS Open for Comme

Postby MADDOG » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:26 pm

OK - Now I want to ask questions regarding the JHB toll roads.........
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