RAF gyrocopter accidents

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Gyronaut
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby Gyronaut » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:36 pm

Dit is vir my interessant dat Kerneels en Michiel en Hersham geen 'location' teenoor hulle name aandui nie. :shock: Spreek boekdele as mens agter anonimiteit wegkruip.

Ook interessant dat hulle altwee niks goed oor die RAF te se het nie alhoewel hulle nie goed ingelig is nie.... laat mens wonder. Dis maklik om mens se eie verskuilde agende agter 'n bos te staan en skreeu.

Ek herhaal flying-i se vraag...

What flying licence do you have?
Do you own a gyro?


For the record.... My moedertaal is ook Afrikaans maar ek is op skool al die verskil tussen enkelvoud en meervoud geleer.

Die res van julle kommentaar verwerp ek met die minagting wat dit verdien.

Wat my 'credentials' betref, ek het 'n HPPL(1991), R22, R44, B47 en B206 rated (lapsed). Ek het bykans 500 helikoter ure en ek is deur Buzz Bezuidenhout opgelei en gekwalifiseerd (Rand), op die staduim was hy die nasionale helikopter kampioen.

Verder het ek 'n GPl met 400 ure en bo en behalwe dit is ek 'n Gyro Instrukteur met 60 opleidingsure sover.

Jou 'credentials'?
Praat saam sin of hou jou bek.

Len
Last edited by Gyronaut on Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby Gyronaut » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:40 pm

I missed Hersham's comment... sorry, won't even comment on it.
Strange how they crawl out the woodwork to support each other when ganging up ...

blabla, I have better things to do than spend my time with idiots.

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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby kloot piloot » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:58 pm

JetRanger, good on you.

I do not fly gyro's, but I enjoy debate and followed this one for a while.

Kerneels does not have the intellectual capacity to answer basic questions. End of topic.

Translated in Afrikaans: "Kerneels, Verkoop jou Ford XR6 Interseptor mentaliteit aan ander mense, maar bly weg van hierdie forum". Jy het veroorsaak dat 4 bladsye k@k gepraat is.

Good riddance !

Nobody should reply to these tappets from here on. No FUEL, no FIRE.

Bye bye Kerneels ^?^
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby Kerneels » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:16 am

kloot piloot wrote:JetRanger, good on you.

I do not fly gyro's, but I enjoy debate and followed this one for a while.

Kerneels does not have the intellectual capacity to answer basic questions. End of topic.

Translated in Afrikaans: "Kerneels, Verkoop jou Ford XR6 Interseptor mentaliteit aan ander mense, maar bly weg van hierdie forum". Jy het veroorsaak dat 4 bladsye k@k gepraat is.

Good riddance !

Nobody should reply to these tappets from here on. No FUEL, no FIRE.

Bye bye Kerneels ^?^
My vriend jou antwoord is tipies van 'n 1 2 3 ou. 1 Liter brandewyn ens. ens. :lol: :lol:

Vir julle inligting ek het 'n PPL vastevlerk van 1980 af, PPL H vanaf 1997 met 500 uur en vyf tipes op
my lisensie, 'n Gyro lisensie met 90 uur.
Ek kan ook lees en weet hoe om navorsing op die internet te doen. En ek het gesonde verstand om te kan
onderskei tussen goed en sleg.
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby saraf » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:38 am

Hi Kerneels

Dankie vir jou terugvoering op jou ondervinding in die RAF 2000.

Saam met wie het jy gevlieg in die RAF 2000? Indien jy hier in die Upington omgewing weer kom wil ek jou graag uitnooi om n draai saam my te kom vlieg in die RAF 2000.

Watse gyro vlieg jy tans?

Groete

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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby Grumpy » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:50 am

Kerneels wrote:
kloot piloot wrote:JetRanger, good on you.

Kerneels does not have the intellectual capacity to answer basic questions. End of topic.

Vir julle inligting ek het 'n PPL vastevlerk van 1980 af, PPL H vanaf 1997 met 500 uur en vyf tipes op
my lisensie, 'n Gyro lisensie met 90 uur.
Kerneels.... Give us some more information please, What is your name and where do you fly from?
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby Kerneels » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:13 am

saraf wrote:Hi Kerneels

Dankie vir jou terugvoering op jou ondervinding in die RAF 2000.

Saam met wie het jy gevlieg in die RAF 2000? Indien jy hier in die Upington omgewing weer kom wil ek jou graag uitnooi om n draai saam my te kom vlieg in die RAF 2000.

Watse gyro vlieg jy tans?

Groete

Eben Mocke JNR
RAF CFI
Ek vlieg tans net helikopter. Dankie vir die uitnodiging.
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby gertcoetzee » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:23 am

Ek kan ook lees en weet hoe om navorsing op die internet te doen
Ah, Kerneels Mbeki, pehaps?
En ek het gesonde verstand om te kan onderskei tussen goed en sleg.
Definately not Kerneels Zuma.
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby hersham » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:38 am

Welcome back Kerneels, vhpy vhpy vhpy
As a prospective gyro purchaser i have found this discussion very informative and very entertaining.The mentality and narrow mindedness of the trike [+ex trike] pilots that lunged into you is indeed very revealing;
By brandishing everybody that disagrees with him or his buddy in Upington as an idiot, Len has seriously eroded his credibility despite his tally of posts.And by making unasked for comments on the linguistic abilities of others he has shot himself in the foot and he must surely cringe everytime Saraf puts a finger on his keyboard....
I fully agree with flying-i,it is not a contest or a fight,it is a discussion.And that implies that agents using [abusing?] this forum should reply openly to questions posed to them,without screaming for help from the moderators,unless they have hidden agendas.
Enjoy your safari Len and fly safe.
Last edited by hersham on Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby saraf » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:45 am

Hi Kerneels,

Plesier, jy is enigetyd welkom.

Saam met wie het jy die RAF gevlieg in die verlede?

Groete

Eben Mocke Jnr
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby flying-i » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:34 pm

Anyway, so this is about RAF accidents. My research shows that 2% of all gyro accidents worldwide are attributed to the RAF. Now what if those that have a RAF and have decided to modify the original design with a HS or other then have an accident - does this then get classified as a RAF accident? It would seem that they are included.

Elsewhere in this thread mention is made of the American rotorcraft assoc - let it be noted that in the states one can buy a kit aircraft, build it and fly it without any training, so be careful how you use choose your stats. Yes they are the biggest but also possibly the biggest untrained rotorcraft assoc.

The UK rotercraft assoc on the other hand have alligned themselves with their CAA and all aircraft have to be approved with training programmes for students as endorsed by their CAA and the manufacturer. The RAF is endorsed for student training in the UK and has this endorsement with with the UK CAA, which is arguably one of the strictist civil aviation authorities in the world.

Further I have established that a HS does in fact contribute to the stabilising of the over corrections of the untrained pilot but it comes with a price. That being that the fuel flow now goes up by up to 10l an hour, the cruising speed drops by 15mph and in some cases the landing is now required to roll beyond the 0 to 10 foot of the standard design, which now poses problems with the front wheel as it is connected to the rudder pedals and in cross wind landings the front wheel may be pointing the wrong way. The HS in my opinion similiar to putting a drag chute on a formula 1 car and saying it is safe for students to learn to drive in or similiar to taxing an aircraft with your brakes on - slow and drag controlled.

Now while the increased fuel flow and lack of cruise speed is permanent it would only take a finite number of training hours to alleviate the perceived problem which is the RAF standpoint and the reason they do not supply an aftermarket HS.

Of course with the extra drag the formula 1 car would overheat and then be classified as a kak car. vhpy

It seems also that some HS are of such a nature the the engine/ thrust line must also be lowered and so the keel needs to be lowered which requires that the body of the RAF be raised. This mod is now called the Sparrow Hawk.

All in all I am a believer in any manufacturers recommendation when it comes to anything that they have designed from the ground up - cars, boats, aircraft.

For those looking to buy a gyro, congrats I sincerely doubt that you will regret your decision. Seeing as it is going to cost a lot of moolas, I suggest that you set up appointments to fly all available makes of gyro in SA. Do some research and ask lots of questions.

So Kerneels in answer to your question as to why did I choose the RAF: One of the main reasons I choose the RAF was because this aircraft will be in the air most days and I like the idea of having local support with a range of spares 24 hours away on a door to door basis. Everything else I got was a bonus. (!!)
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby Kerneels » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:33 pm

flying-i wrote:

Further I have established that a HS does in fact contribute to the stabilising of the over corrections of the untrained pilot but it comes with a price. That being that the fuel flow now goes up by up to 10l an hour, the cruising speed drops by 15mph and in some cases the landing is now required to roll beyond the 0 to 10 foot of the standard design, which now poses problems with the front wheel as it is connected to the rudder pedals and in cross wind landings the front wheel may be pointing the wrong way. The HS in my opinion similiar to putting a drag chute on a formula 1 car and saying it is safe for students to learn to drive in or similiar to taxing an aircraft with your brakes on - slow and drag controlled.

Now while the increased fuel flow and lack of cruise speed is permanent it would only take a finite number of training hours to alleviate the perceived problem which is the RAF standpoint and the reason they do not supply an aftermarket HS.

Of course with the extra drag the formula 1 car would overheat and then be classified as a kak car. vhpy

It seems also that some HS are of such a nature the the engine/ thrust line must also be lowered and so the keel needs to be lowered which requires that the body of the RAF be raised. This mod is now called the Sparrow Hawk.
(!!)
How do you substatiate these claims ?????
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby extra300s » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:54 pm

GO fly a trike. Much safer... s023
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby flying-i » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:29 pm

Kerneels! Another cut and paste, you are outdoing yourself. If you expect answers to your questions then surley you should answer questions posed to you like with who and how long did you fly with and without a HS in a RAF?

Any how, I see you have highlighted some words; is this what you want me to substantiate?

“In my opinion” means In my opinion..

I have taken some exerpts from emails etc that I have received since doing some research.
Firstly when I started the research I was looking at the 130hp motor and two of the mods required an upgrade to the 160hp due to the weight increase – both thirsty and expensive.

Email exerpt in relation to power and speed settings:
“Bo's gyro is almost 15 MPH faster at the same engine RPM than my Sparrow Hawk.. and when your ready for an engine upgrade it's no different on the mountings”

Email exerpt re additional weight:
“If you have the soob 2.2 FI 130 hp engine on your RAF I would look in to how much additional weight the Bo Collins mod adds. The AAI mod needs the 165 hp 2.5 L to get off the ground when close to max gross weight on those high density altitude days”

Comment from a training instructor:
“With so much experience, it's very easy for instructors to instinctively compensate with minor adjustments that are beyond a students level of skill. Using a horizontal stabilizer will enable students to achieve good, safe, flying skills with less frustration and fewer hours of training. I see no reason for it to take 25 hours of training to fly a gyroplane”

...And 25 hours was too much with a standard RAF vhpy - no wonder they had so many incidents.

Data from one type of MOD
Fuel Consumption: 6.5 gph at cruise RAF 6.5 but with mandatory engine upgrade and higher cruise speed
Dry Weight: 900 Ibs. RAF = 790
Useful Load: 600 Ibs. RAF =600
Gross Weight: 1,500 Ibs.RAF = 1390
Performance
Minimum Take-off Ground Roll: 100' RAF = 75’
Landing Roll: 0-30' RAF = 0-10'
Rate of Climb (ft./min.): 650' RAF = 1100 ft/min
Speed - Cruise: 70 to 75 mph RAF= 80 to 85mph

Other MODs do not have sufficient reliable published data but specs and performances are shared amongst interested parties.

Kerneels I am losing interest in this discussion partly because it is not a discussion and is turning into an insult blog. I see one comment has already been removed and the originator has nothing to add so perhaps we should terminate it..

I am however still interested in your motivation as your initial comment was not only opinionated but spoken/ typed with some passion. Perhaps you were a little over eager with your point of view?

I have a box file of research and it is not fair to dump it on this forum and nor is it fair to the HS supporters, as it would be very difficult to put everything into context.

It took me a long time to see the light but I leave you with one challenge: Go to Upington and I will pay for your flight in a RAF with a RAF instructor. You do not have to comment. (!!)
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Re: RAF gyrocopter accidents

Postby kloot piloot » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:33 pm

=D* =D* =D* =D* =D*
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